BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2020-10-24 16:39:10 +0000 UTC]

Just looking at that poster, oh yeah, that’s totally the Joker! And he looks actually scary! XD

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BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2020-10-24 16:38:04 +0000 UTC]

I haven’t seen it, but I’ll definitely look into it for next year! (I already have the rest of this month slated.)

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BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2020-10-24 16:37:24 +0000 UTC]

Oh yes, I have seen that! And indeed, this year has felt like one long, continuous take through a war zone ...

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-06 14:36:24 +0000 UTC]

I'll bookmark it and take a look!

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-04-16 03:05:04 +0000 UTC]

That you did! O_o

I’ll take your word on it that you’re not trying to make me mad or insult me. And I hope in turn that you accept me as one of those people who sing its praises, very unapologetically so. I’m not gonna tone down the joy the movie brings me.

Again, I believe that you don’t mean to come off that way. Though I don’t doubt that some of it will regardless …

… Uh, that wasn’t obvious by now? XD

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-04-16 03:25:45 +0000 UTC]

Indeed. Wow. Granted, I had a lot going on last year, namely during the summer when I originally intended to answer your comment. But while I won't bother you with the details, those three months were already filled with enough stress and misery that I didn't want to add anything to the workload by tackling my responses about a movie that could so personally aggravate me, so I just let it sit... and sit... and sit... DX

I know, I've been trying my best to accept that. It's hard to, because - as you pretty much know by now - that movie gets under my skin so much, in a very insidious way. I don't even think Man of Steel with "maybe" can piss me off in the same way as Nolan's trilogy does.

Yeah, I'm afraid of that too. *sighs* That's why I wanted to say, in advance...

I knew I disliked them, obviously, but still, to outright *hate* a movie so much? Especially one that's so different from the other movies that normally provoke such a visceral dislike from me? (see-Adam Sandler comedies, the live-action Scooby-Doos, Jim Carrey Grinch...) It was a hell of a realization to get, that I legitimately hated Nolan's trilogy as much as - shit, it not MORE - than films I'd objectively consider *worse*. And again, that was kinda scary for me. I mean that. o_o

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-04-16 03:57:00 +0000 UTC]

It's still very hard for me to comprehend how something like this can cause someone such immense pain. Really, I’m at such a loss for words when I hear the word “misery” unironically and unexaggeratedly associated with reading an opinion on a movie.

Oh, I know. And honestly, my least favorite movies of all time don’t get me to the level that this one gets you to. Granted I’d say I’ve avoided 95% of what many would consider the worst of all times, but there have been plenty of movies I’ve hated but didn’t feel so hurt by.

I don’t know what to say, other than if it does scare you then maybe ask yourself a few questions about why a piece of art is able to get to you so much. Because when I think of media that's truly worth getting this upset over, I think of something that either had unjustifiable production methods (like Cannibal Holocaust having real animals tortured and killed) or beliefs that only a morally unsound person could ever agree with (like Birth of a Nation, where obvious reasons are obvious). Real, next-level kinds of offensive.

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-04-16 04:17:16 +0000 UTC]

I wouldn't say "pain," when referring to your opinions. "Frustration," yes, absolutely. But "misery"? No. I know what misery is. And while it might drive me up the wall that you love a movie I find so joyless, bleak, exploitative, and so many other objectionable things, I would never say that your love of the movie makes me miserable. Annoyed as hell, yes. But never miserable. 

Yeah... I don't go seeking out horrible movies, and pride myself on that (especially compared to one of my friends who *has* watched some real infamous shit like Manos, to name just one). But I dunno. I still think it's just the damn fans of it that get me. I think "The Dark Knight," my immediate association is "asshole Heath Ledger fanboys who insult other Batman movies" or "film snobs who sneer at comic books" or "Batman snobs who think gritty realism is all that matters". That was mostly what I saw from people online who liked that movie for, oh God, nearly ten YEARS. That's a long time... and like I said before, you were pretty much the first guy who I actually found capable of talking to about The Dark Knight in a way that didn't make me automatically think "douchebag". I've had a lot of time to get bitter and build that association, though. 

Ehh… you're right, you're right. It's a completely subjective thing on my part. But again, really, I just got sick of them because of the hype, and really, because I legitimately suspect that their success inspired both Warner Bros. AND DC Comics to make some very ill-thought-out decisions about how to handle their characters, and what "mature" storytelling with Batman and more meant... and that that bad decision making led to such delightful things as movies helmed by Zack Snyder, or comic books where you had the Joker sending Batman tapes of him torturing Alfred with ammonia. Just really, really bleak, unpleasant stuff. I've told you before, the characters in those stories - Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman - they've inspired me. Reading Superman literally changed my outlook on life. So I guess that looking at the bad stuff done with the characters that came out of the 2010s, I really see it tracing back to The Dark Knight, and even if I *agree* with you that there are far more despicable movies out there... it still gets under my skin. 

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-04-28 03:06:27 +0000 UTC]

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-04-28 03:52:30 +0000 UTC]

Look, I'll admit, readily, there was stuff I wrote in that during a very miserable time of my life (last July), but I still assert that you liking the movie does not fill me with misery. I know what misery is. I've experienced stuff in the last year that has helped me define it much more clearly. But this movie does anger me. It will always get under my skin. But its very existence does NOT make me "miserable". I don't HATE Christopher Nolan for directing it. I don't hate Christian Bale or Tom Hardy or Anne Hathaway. I may dislike David Goyer, who co-wrote it, but that's to do with other things besides just those movies. In short - I am not Mr. Enter. Or rather, I am trying my God-damnedest NOT to be like him. I don't think the movie's out to get me personally. But there is a lot of things in it and around it that I find immensely distasteful and objectionable. 

And I’m starting to think that you just know how to find the worst groups of people, because while I have zero doubt believing they’re out there, that’s far from even being close to the majority I’ve come across.

Lucky you. And I do mean that. If nothing else, I'm glad that you've met people who are decent. 

You’re probably right in that WB took some of the wrong ideas about what made the movies work, but I’d hardly say the movies should be looked down on just for that. After all, how many studios have tried to create a cinematic universe based on Marvel’s success resulting in inferior results, including DC? That doesn’t make the MCU a bad series, it just means execs are reacting to it incorrectly.

Yeah, but BluJay, when Sony made Amazing Spider-Man 2, they at least understood enough about the character to not have Uncle Ben tell him to let people die, or have Spider-Man torture and kill criminals. The kind of grimdark bullshit that Warner Bros. pulled by letting Zack Snyder do his thing, I can pretty comfortably lay on them thinking "Nolan made really dark Batman movies and they broke the bank. MORE really dark superhero movies will be even better!"

I’d even argue that the Dark Knight movies are responsible for a considerable amount of newfound respect for superhero movies in general, and therefore more care and effort going into them resulting in better films. 

I wouldn't. I might concede the point that The Dark Knight made *critics* treat superhero movies with newfound respect, but I wouldn't say that it made some of the people making them treat them with more care or respect. Kevin Feige was already building the MCU when Dark Knight Rises came out - shit, The Avengers came out the same year as Dark Knight Rises! (I remember that because I will never forget my dad saying to me on the way back from the theater, "You know, about an hour in I was thinking 'by this time in The Avengers I was having the time of my life. When's this movie gonna become good?'")

My point is that the after-effects of someone’s work don’t have to affect the quality of the work itself.

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, I don't yet know if I'd necessarily agree with you on that. I've told you before about Watchmen. It's a good book, yes, and it changed everything... but given all the bad stuff that arose from its legacy (both from casualsand professionals) I do think that its reputation as "the greatest comic book of all time" kinda need to be put into question some. Or, for a bit of a more relevant topic, how about The Killing Joke? Brilliantly written and drawn story that tragically reframes the Joker's nature, and his struggle with Batman... but what almost nobody realizes about it nowadays is that Alan Moore never meant for it to count as "canon". It was a "what if" story, nothing more! But unfortunately, DC immediately worked it into their main books, and the ultimate result was that it just became a go-ahead for writers to have the Joker do more and more terrible things, until we ultimately get to him pouring ammonia into Alfred's eyes and chopping off one of his hands with a meat cleaver. Now there's people who are sick and tired of the Batman-Joker feud because essentially, The Killing Joke has made every major Batman writer since then put the idea of the tragedy behind it at the forefront of nearly everything, and readers have gotten sick of it! hat one graphic novel had consequences. 

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-06 14:27:04 +0000 UTC]

Alright then, I see what you mean.

Maybe they kept the characters intact, but they still pulled a lot of the same kind of stunts of “Well, the MCU broke box office records with a movie that brought a ton of heroes together after five movies of buildup. Bringing equally big characters together with only ONE movie of buildup will be even better!” You can say that it’s a lesser of two evils, but I think it’s unfair to blame one movie for influencing the industry negatively but not put that same blame on another movie for being a different negative influence.

Even if it’s just critics, I still would call that a win. They still have an influence on creators and even audience members, and that can spread around. And funny, I walked out thinking, “Yeah, Avengers was good, but THAT was the show-stopper of the summer!”

Again, I think you’re projecting the reactions of audiences and creators onto the quality of the comic stories themselves. Which I don’t think is a valid argument for them not being as good as they’re made out to be (and I’m not even saying this as a fan of them). You can say they were bad influences and had consequences, but unless those consequences were the intent of the stories, I don’t consider them legit knocks against the work.

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-05-07 04:20:39 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. I'm glad I was able to make myself understood on that front. 

Yes, but all the same, those are business-oriented decisions you're bringing up. Those hurt matters, I won't deny it, but really, if they can't even get their own characters right in the first place, I'd say that that is just as serious, if not even more so. Superman and Batman are multi-million dollar (perhaps even billion-dollar) names and icons - pretty much nobody doesn't know who they are! If you cannot get the sum core of them right, what business do they have making a movie about them, huh? (And also, on your point about me being unfair - I'm not gonna say that the MCU is flawless, or that it spawned imitators. But you know what else? The Dark Knight, contrary to whatever its fanboys and worshippers say, is not a flawless movie that did no wrong either. They both have flaws, but I am still pretty fucking sick of the people who pin everything wrong with modern cinema on the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's a bullshit argument that vastly reduces the complexity of the matter down to people being snobs and going after superhero movies for not being "real cinema" and it legitimately pisses me off.)

Hmph. I'll concede your point, begrudgingly, on the critics front. But that's all.

For one, I resent that you use the word "projecting," because that makes it sound like you think I'm just being irrationally hateful or negative here. No, I readily believe in considering a lot about a work of fiction - both the context in which it first came out, and then also the repercussions or aftereffects of its release. Gotta know your history, is what I say! 

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-14 22:23:41 +0000 UTC]

I don't know what else to say. This whole thing has basically been reduced to splitting hairs. Many of these movies, good or bad, have caused bad decisions to be made for later work. Which one caused the most damage? Frankly, I just don't care enough to vouch for one side.

Alright then.

Context is important. I just don't like when it overshadows the work itself.

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-05-14 23:39:46 +0000 UTC]

I wouldn't be nearly as vocal about any of this if people online didn't treat The Dark Knight as *the* pinnacle of superhero storytelling and that nothing else can ever measure up to it, or that all other superhero movies should follow its example. It drives me nuts to see fans of the movie act like nothing bad ever came out of it and that the MCU is the single cause of everything wrong with modern cinema, rather than say consider that there *might* be blame to be laid on greedy shortsighted executives chasing dollar signs, no, it's all the MCU's fault. *rolls eyes* 

I just don't like when it overshadows the work itself.

And I don't like it when the work itself is so zealously held in regard by some of its defenders that they will flat-out ignore context and attack and slander those who try to bring up a differing or critical view on it. But here we are. *sigh* 

Look, here's the thing. I never went into these movies *looking* to get mad at them or find something to hate them for. Never. That has never been an intention of mine towards any movie I go to see. I want to enjoy myself watching films, especially superhero ones, and these ones... they just don't work for me. And it's maddening - indescribably so - to have this opinion about it and almost nobody else you can talk to seems to get what you're saying. They think you're too harsh, or that you just don't understand, or that you're full of shit... it's a lonely feeling. A pretty awful feeling, really. Maybe I'm just bitter, but honestly, right now I just feel *tired* about this whole Dark Knight thing. DX

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-18 01:28:28 +0000 UTC]

For what it’s worth, I’m not holding it as that pinnacle because I blindly think it can’t be topped. I have been waiting, WAITING for something in the category to come along and finally be better. I just don’t think it has, but that’s my own opinion, not the hype train.

I’ll accept contextual problems, but I won’t accept the blame game.

Well then I’m happy to just shut up if that’s what will calm the maddening feeling down. I just read something you made/wrote, respond with my honest opinion, and so on. But you’re not unique in having that opinion about something. Everyone has a set of unpopular opinions that make them feel either alone or delusional. Why do you think I made The Minority Report a thing? Not to mention I literally just expressed my dislike for Django Unchained, nearly a year after panning Tarantino’s OUATIH. We all have those opinions.

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-05-18 03:00:32 +0000 UTC]

I don't necessarily think you have been blindly following it. But all right then. It is what it is, and I guess what it is in this case is an impasse. 

I'll accept contextual problems, but I won't accept the blame game.

For the record, what I said previously was, in no way, shape or form, any kind of jab at you. Just my own jab at the people I had previously mentioned who sing the praises of the movie and treat it as though it is flawless in every single way. I admit I could have phrased myself better with that, in particular the "but here we are now," which probably made it seem like I was including you in that bunch. And for that, I am truly sorry. 

*sigh*
And again, look. I really wish I didn't feel this way about the movies. But, God damn it, I just am fed up with them. And I know what you say about these opinions, but at the same time... have you ever been worried, with the Minority Report, that you would get death threats over, say, disliking Ghostbusters? Or defending The Last Jedi? Because I have. When I did my TDKR post I was scared shitless of the thought that I'd get death threats from angry Dark Knight fans, or that (even worse) I'd be told that I couldn't dare criticize the movie because it'd disrespect Aurora victims or something. Maybe I'm paranoid, but all the same, for the longest time most of my exposure to Dark Knight fans was the more unpleasant side, so I guess I just am prickly about the matter.

Tarantino's OUATIH

If nothing else, you might find *this* funny - when I first read that shortening of the title, I swear to God, I read that as "Tarantino's DEATH" and was very shocked and startled. XD

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-19 23:19:08 +0000 UTC]

I didn't really think so, but it was starting to come off like I was being lumped in those groups, as were many other who legit love the movie and aren't just mindlessly going with the hype. But thank you.

Worried that I'll be called stupid or that I have no business talking about movies? Absolutely. Worried that I'd get death threats or that I was insulting real-life people? No, because anyone who says that to me is someone whose opinion I can't care less about. I remember someone responding to my Letterboxd Pixar movie ranking list by asking if I was on crack, and at that point I thought, "Oh okay, so you're just a baby, bye bye." But even the feeling of just being criticized died down immensely over time. Wanna know why? Because of the people who read my opinions and said, "You know what? I see your point. I don't agree, but I get where you're coming from." Or even the rare person who comes out of the woodwork to say they agree with me. That happened with my negative review of Incredibles 2, my slightly critical but still positive review of Parasite, and even my mixed review of the beloved Godfather II. Even Django Unchained had people express that they understand my points. None of that sense of satisfaction or sense of self-validation would have happened had I not put my "controversial" opinions out there. And I saw many people in the comments section of your TDKR piece having similarly understanding or even agreeing reactions to what you said. Or your positive review of Fallen Kingdom, or the newest Godzilla. Do you regret putting those up? Did people's reactions validate your fears? Or, if they got some rotten eggs insulting you over them, are those people's comments really things that you think are worth getting upset over when it's clear they're the ones with the problem?

Oh my, that'd be quite different. XD

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-05-20 03:56:19 +0000 UTC]

No problem. I will try to be more considerate of my phrasing in the future. 

Well, good for you. It's not that I outright care what the assholes out there say, but it's more the fear of being targeted *by* them that gets me worked up. I hate that kind of conflict and adversity, I can get stressed or anxious pretty easily, and while some stuff has helped me deal with it, the old fears still persist. (Maybe it ain't rational, but well, that is fear for you.) 

I mean, yes, it has helped to see my own words be received well by others. But I just don't know, it's something that just doesn't easily go away for me.  

I know! I swear to you, for a second I really did wrack my brain checking to see if his death had been a thing as of late. LOL!

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-22 02:48:27 +0000 UTC]

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-05-23 23:00:10 +0000 UTC]

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-05-26 01:02:09 +0000 UTC]

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BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2020-03-26 03:18:46 +0000 UTC]

I’m dying right now! XD XD OMFG, that’s hilarious! The song choices were so pitch-perfect, it’s genius. (And yet somehow makes the scenes even creepier as well, probably from the contrast.) Thanks a ton! XD

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2020-02-05 00:44:04 +0000 UTC]

I actually have been watching you for over a year, but I had accidentally hit "Unwatch" on my phone app! XD But you're welcome regardless!

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2020-02-05 00:47:30 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I'd wondered. I thought you'd been watching me before, so I was surprised to get the notification earlier. XD

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BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2020-01-23 14:07:52 +0000 UTC]

Awesome! Just imagining how much had to go right even compared to most movies is staggering. I imagine Birdman was a cakewalk compared to this. I'm so glad you enjoyed it and got to see it on the big screen.

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BluJayPlayer In reply to SyddyGurl [2019-12-25 18:32:08 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome!

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BluJayPlayer In reply to crossover4 [2019-12-04 14:36:21 +0000 UTC]

I did hear about that, and it must have been neat for fans of the show.

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crossover4 In reply to crossover4 [2019-12-02 08:41:55 +0000 UTC]

Here's the rest:

     

So yeah, thoughts?

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crossover4 In reply to crossover4 [2019-12-02 09:01:10 +0000 UTC]

 

Oops, forgot this picture. It goes between the first and second pictures. My bad, sorry.

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2019-11-24 23:51:36 +0000 UTC]

Don't worry, I like to think I'm pretty reasonable in understanding people's points. You've told me you don't hate the movie before, so I know that going in.

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2019-11-25 00:15:19 +0000 UTC]

Thanks... I just wanted to make double-sure, as I had a LOT to say there.

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BluJayPlayer In reply to Scholarly-Cimmerian [2019-11-25 01:00:12 +0000 UTC]

This is the kind of movie where most people do. What I said in this essay doesn't even cover it all!

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Scholarly-Cimmerian In reply to BluJayPlayer [2019-11-25 06:08:12 +0000 UTC]

True enough. Everyone and their dog has a LOT to say about this movie. Oof! 

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BluJayPlayer In reply to jpbelow [2019-09-30 14:36:02 +0000 UTC]

Yeah!! So glad you loved it! I agree in that I loved how the Moon and Mars establishments were portrayed. It was very matter-of-fact to make you really feel like you have the POV of these characters, but also told us just enough to tell where things were in this future. It’s also nice to have Neptune finally get some love in movies, lol. And so much to read into among all the cool shots and scenes!

Well they did say that the blasts were at their strongest at the source and got weaker as they traveled to Earth. But yeah, that’s a good point, the fact that anything is still out there at all when you get closer to Neptune. If what Earth received was the WEAKENED version of it, then the only way it makes sense is if there was no blast in the time Roy was in space. But whatever, that kind of thing doesn’t bother me, especially when it’s otherwise executed so powerfully!

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jpbelow In reply to BluJayPlayer [2019-09-30 17:07:53 +0000 UTC]

I agree! Personally, making up planets with their own silly names and their own outlandish environments was never really my thing, because I always thought the worlds we already have here in our Solar System have a lot of cool things to offer (more than the general public seems to realize). Not just as far planets go, but also the moons-specifically the ones of the gas giants. Some moons are geologically active, like Jupiter's Io or Neptune's Triton. Some moons, like Europa, seem to be the most likely alien places to potentially support life. And even some have such strange appearances that we subconciously recognize, like how Saturn's moon Mimas is the main visual influence of the design of the Death Star.

And yeah, I agree that Neptune deserves more love and recognition in film. Probably the main reason it doesn't seem to get it is because it's WAY out there; so far that even the Voyager 2 space probe, which was travelling a million miles per day (20 times the speed of a bullet) took TWELVE years to reach it and relay back the pictures we see in books.

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