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Baron-Engel — Fictional Needle fire Rifle Design 01

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Published: 2016-12-30 18:20:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 5683; Favourites: 146; Downloads: 77
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Description A bit of concept design for an upcoming commission. The client is asking me to do a bit of world building along with the general illustration.

    A point of focus in the picture is one character showing another character a needle fire style rifle. The needle fire was type of firearm that was very popular with certain European armies during the 1840s thru the mid 1860s. It was bolt action, breech-loading concept that fired a paper cartridge that contained the projectile, powder charge, and primer. The primer was detonated by a long needle-like firing pin, thus the name needle fire.  The needle would pierce the cartridge and detonate the propellant.

    The needle fire offers several advantages over the muzzleloaders of the period. One simple had to drop a cartridge into the chamber. Close the bolt. Cock the action and fire. Then open the action and shake out any remnants of unburnt cartridge from the chamber. Then repeat the process. It offered a much higher rate of fire and the weapon from prone positions and from behind cover.

    The system however did have several weaknesses. The first was the actual needle itself. It was long, thin and prone to wear from repeated detonations and the corrosive nature of black powder. There were two general schools of thought about how to go about firing the cartridge.

    The first method was the Dreyse-style of ignition which positioned the primer at the base of the bullet and used like a little anvil surface to aid in detonation. This unfortunately meant that the needle needed to be longer and more of it was exposed to the detonation and burning of the powder.

    The second method was the Chassepot-style ignition which located the primer at the back of the cartridge. This meant using a more sensitive primer but the needle could be shorter.

    The second problem with all needlefire systems was gas leakage. Besides providing a convenient to handle, waterproof, crushproof package, the metallic cartridges acts to form a gas seal in the chamber of the weapon. This was a problem that plagued most breech-loading firearms that fired paper cartridges.

    The Dreyse system just accepted the fact that some gas would leak from the chamber but it was some distance from the shooters face. The Chassepot system employed a rubber gasket seal the chamber. However these seals will wear out over time from stress and heat of firing and need replacing. This particularly became a problem for French soldiers during the Franco-Prussian war who were forced to manufacture ad hoc seals from leather.

    For this design I decided to use the more modern Chassepot system for this one.

    Ian over at Forgotten Weapons has a couple of good video on needle fire weapons.

Dreyse M60

Chassepot M1866

I hope you like what you see. Please help make more art like this possible by supporting me at Patreon  

  
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Comments: 25

Orca19904 [2017-03-26 16:14:50 +0000 UTC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always had the impression that those crescent-shaped butts on rifle stocks such as on this rifle and the real-life Henry lever-action would be quite uncomfortable against your shoulder in anything other than a prone shooting position.

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Baron-Engel In reply to Orca19904 [2017-03-26 16:17:26 +0000 UTC]

Actually it's a butt plate generally intended for off hand or kneeling shots. The extreme examples being the butt plates on Schutzen rifles that can only be fired in the offhand position.

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mouseanderson [2017-01-25 20:12:27 +0000 UTC]

No bayonet ring?

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Baron-Engel In reply to mouseanderson [2017-01-25 20:25:46 +0000 UTC]

Well this meant to be hunting and sporting rifle.

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mouseanderson In reply to Baron-Engel [2017-01-25 21:21:15 +0000 UTC]

Ah, my mis-read. nice design overall.
Like the heavier stock, drops the recoil.

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Cambion-Hunter [2016-12-31 03:20:41 +0000 UTC]

You designed this quite well, Engel. Well done.  

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Baron-Engel In reply to Cambion-Hunter [2016-12-31 04:46:04 +0000 UTC]

Thanks.

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Cambion-Hunter In reply to Baron-Engel [2016-12-31 05:28:22 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome, Engel.

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LavaBatA1 [2016-12-30 22:55:49 +0000 UTC]

I love the design you came up with!

I presume that this weapon needs to be cocked/half cocked before the bolt can be opened like on a Dreyse or Chassepot?

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Baron-Engel In reply to LavaBatA1 [2016-12-30 23:40:12 +0000 UTC]

Yes.

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NothingImpossibe [2016-12-30 22:34:24 +0000 UTC]

I've always liked needle rifles, they were for their time a revolutionary advancement in firearms. Granted the system was basically obsolete as soon as self contained cartridge were invented. still, they're a fascinating part of firearm history.

And this one is really good looking, I particularly like the cocking piece, the position and the visual aid it would provide would be a practical and useful feature to have. I've noticed that all the weapons you've drawn are more "realistic" and practical then what pretty much every other artist does. I really like that about your art.

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Baron-Engel In reply to NothingImpossibe [2016-12-31 01:39:32 +0000 UTC]

"I've always liked needle rifles, they were for their time a revolutionary advancement in firearms. Granted the system was basically obsolete as soon as self contained cartridge were invented. still, they're a fascinating part of firearm history."

I found the C&R Arsenal video about French Gras rifle video interesting; especially the reasoning of why the French decided in 1866 to go with a needle fire rifle when metallic cartridges were becoming the obvious state of the art. By the way Othias sounds horrible in the video because he had a nose cold.

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EarlMcClaw [2016-12-30 21:38:13 +0000 UTC]

Its a bit of interesting history for the term "needle rifle".

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Baron-Engel In reply to EarlMcClaw [2016-12-30 21:42:00 +0000 UTC]

Yeah. Ian's videos are very informative. It's why support him on Patreon. Of which he just hit 5K a month.

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LavaBatA1 In reply to Baron-Engel [2016-12-30 23:50:11 +0000 UTC]

Gun Jesus is good at what he does!

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Baron-Engel In reply to LavaBatA1 [2016-12-31 00:10:41 +0000 UTC]

LMAO!! Oh that's good!

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LavaBatA1 In reply to Baron-Engel [2016-12-31 00:19:17 +0000 UTC]

I can't take credit for Gun Jesus, I read it one one of the videos of his on youtube. But it was too good not to mention!

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Rod1337 [2016-12-30 21:00:04 +0000 UTC]

Nice old school rifle.

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IrdesTheBrony [2016-12-30 20:33:48 +0000 UTC]

Sliding compartment? Not sure about it. Might get loose too easily.
Maybe I'm missing some advantage of it being that way, but right now I can think of several better solutions. Like an AK-style hole in the end of the stock, with a cap that is screwed in instead of the AK's spring-held one. 

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Baron-Engel In reply to IrdesTheBrony [2016-12-30 21:27:01 +0000 UTC]

Sliding patch style boxes have been around for centuries and work surprisingly well. Also they can be made with simple hand tools.

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IrdesTheBrony In reply to Baron-Engel [2016-12-31 04:47:57 +0000 UTC]

Oh well. Didn't know that; thanks.

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WidowPeak [2016-12-30 19:28:09 +0000 UTC]

Hum. How exactly would a needle ignite the propellant? Because there are no caps, right?

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Baron-Engel In reply to WidowPeak [2016-12-30 19:38:30 +0000 UTC]

Yes there is. There is a primer, the cap, located inside the paper cartridge.

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WidowPeak In reply to Baron-Engel [2016-12-30 21:06:14 +0000 UTC]

So basically, the main difference is that these are breach-fed weapons with paper catridged, instead of metal ones?

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Baron-Engel In reply to WidowPeak [2016-12-30 21:40:10 +0000 UTC]

It was from these style of weapons that metallic cartridge firearms evolved. In fact the initial French Gras rifles were conversions of Chassepot needle fire rifles. In the US. A similar thing occurred the Sharps rifle which began life as a paper cartridge breech loader.

Although in the case of Sharp the the paper cartridges did not have primer as part of the cartridge and instead relied on a separate primer element. Either in the form of a percussion cap or Maynard cap gun style paper cap.

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