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8.Tiger python_attack
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Published: 2008-07-14 16:40:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 29830; Favourites: 1029; Downloads: 230
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Description
Python molurus bivittatus and rattRelated content
Comments: 1833
Dear WerewolfOfTheWater,
I ask that you please STFU when your ignorance isn't welcomed. I own two Ball Pythons, and I've had four previous, two that were captive bred and two that were caught in the wild. Those previous four were fed live/feeder mice. The two I have now are fed thawed mice.
You're an idiot for thinking feeding snakes is as easy as giving a dog a fucking bowl of Dog Chow.
Snakes are seriously finicky eaters, with a lot of things that can come into play as to why: Most snakes caught in the wild won't eat a thawed rat because they've survived on hunting and catching live, moving prey; captive bred snakes who were allowed to diet on live mice usually won't convert to thawed mice; trauma 'caused by regurgitation of a thawed mouse; simply not interested (like one of mine was).
Personally, the only reason why I haven't fed my current pythons live mice is simply because the people I need to get them from are too far away to visit every week. I hate thawing mice because I can never tell if they're done all the way through (and allowing your snake to digest still frozen mice is just as dangerous, if not more, than a scratch/bite from a live mouse), and I end up having to thaw them longer and when I do that they just fall apart and become a nasty, bloody mess.
We purchase snakes to own and care for snakes, not to own and care for snakes AND mice.
I will feed my babies live mice before I ever think to let them starve.
Your self-righteousness is unfounded unless you, too, will also bitch about how lizard/frog/arachnid owners feed their animals LIVE crickets and LIVE mealworms.
And in which case, if you do... please get a life and never own anything past a damn hamster.
Sincerely,
An Aggravated Python Owner
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Most snakes caught in the wild won't eat a thawed rat because they've survived on hunting and catching live, moving prey; captive bred snakes who were allowed to diet on live mice usually won't convert to thawed mice;
Snakes have been known to eat carrion in the wild. BTW, this guy has successfully converted a wild snake to eat pre-killed:
[link]
All four videos of the same series pretty much sum up my thoughts on the live feeding issue.
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"Most snakes caught in the wild...."
Why would you purchase a animal that was caught in the wild and not captive bred? That seems a bit cruel and too stressful of a situation to put onto the animal.
I think the most humane situation to do that wouldn't regard getting rid of your snakes would be to test freshly pre-killed and frozen rodents on them first. I had a friend who's had several different types of snakes who would feed them freshly killed prey and they never had a problem with it. 
Of course if that doesn't work, then just feed them live animals. Sick truth and I dislike it because it could be avoided. But if it needs meat to thrive, give it meat.
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Have you even read what WerewolfOfTheWater has said to try to get her 'point' across on what would be the most 'humane' thing to do compared to feeding a snake a live meal? She considers crushing the animal's skull a more human way to go rather than letting the snake do what is natural in the wild.
People purchase wild-caught snakes mostly being that they're cheaper. Captive-breds are extremely expensive, the cost varying on the breed, its markings, and even size and age.
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Well is depends.
If you could severe or snap the animals head efficiently to the point that it would die in seconds or instantly, I would much rather do that if I had a pet snake. To me, because that's less painful and hurtful to the prey animal it's what should be done when it can be done. Dying at the hands of suffocation is cruel and unnecessary when it can be prevented.
Ah, that sucks. I don't know if there's a tameness with reptiles as there is with other animals. Do reptiles attach to owners like mammals and birds?
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1) I will never kill an animal.
2) I will not pay someone to kill an animal for me.
3) It is ridiculous for anyone to require such a damnable thing in order to own an otherwise simplistic pet.
4) It is not cruel and unnecessary when it is done in the wild. (If you were to see a snake constricting a mouse in the woods and your bleeding heart made you intervened, then you just single-handedly cost that snake its meal for possibly the next three weeks, and depending how long it's been before it ate last, it could die of starvation within the next few days.)
5) The fact that if they're used to you, they won't curl up or tense up or try to get away from you is enough to claim that replies do get attached to their owners.
6) I've already stated that I feed my snakes thawed mice, but I do support feeding live mice when the snake is being particularly difficult, and trust me, feeding problems are not limited to just wild-caught snakes.
When it comes down to it, the health of the snake is what matters to the snake owner. Not the mouse. If the mouse's health was a concern, then it would be the pet rather than the snake.
This is not fucking animal cruelty. Animal cruelty would be neglect, abuse, endangerment, etc.
Trust me, if this was such an issue with the nation, it would have been made illegal in every state like dogfighting, which the wonderful WerewolfOfTheWater wants to fucking compare this crap to, and that's disgusting.
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"I've already stated that I feed my snakes thawed mice, but I do support feeding live mice when the snake is being particularly difficult, and trust me, feeding problems are not limited to just wild-caught snakes."
Yeah, I once had a problem with a iguana about eating, it was in depression cause it changed it's location when I bought it. And the iguana would eat only if I fed it with a spoon!
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Oh, and let me remind you.
Animal cruelty is also defined as unnecessary pain or indirect torture when other humane methods have not been previously tried.
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I've already won this argument over a month ago. Go back and read it for details 'cause you clearly haven't; that, or you just want to get your two cents in, despite stating the same shit that's already been said just for the sake of arguing. (This being very clear with how you talked to Sye.)
Got other shit to do than telling off another person for trying to tell me how to take care of pets that I've basically grown up with and taken care of. Peace.
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"tl;dr" does not win you arguments.
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Because you didn't care to read my post, I'm not going to read this one what so ever.
I still have my valid points and am sure I'm more logical and correct in my methods than you are. So continue to deny your hand in animal abuse for both the snake and rat.
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1.)
Even though you're not directly killing an animal, you are condemning it to death, so in a way - you are assisting the killing of that animal.
2.)
Then kill it yourself or keep doing what you're doing. I can't stop you. I personally, would kill the animal myself because I could ensure a more rapid death than what my snake could ever provide, if it came down to it. (ie wont eat thawed rats)
3.)
I'm not sure what this even means so I'm going to bypass it.
4.)
It's not cruel in the wild because it's being done in the wild.
However, this is not the wild, it is captivity... you chose to purchase an animal that required animals to be killed for it. That snake didn't want to become someones pet nor did the rat or prey animal want to be eaten.
To categorize me as someone with a weak heart is ignorant of you. I would never stop something that was occurring in the wild to an animal with another animal because that is nature. Whoever would do such a thing is stupid.
If it's ok for the snake to eat live prey because that's what it normally does in the wild then you should let your snake die from whatever disease it catches. Because that's what would happen in the wild.
Because it's in captivity though beyond its will as is the prey animal, it is the moral responsibility of the caretaker to ensure the least possible amount of stress and pain on both creatures during feeding and death.
"This is not fucking animal cruelty. Animal cruelty would be neglect, abuse, endangerment, etc."
Neglect often falls upon animals that are purchased for being fodder for another.
Feeding is not abuse, but it's considered an unnecessary cruel act when other methods should be sought after first and tried before live feeding. If someone is unwilling to do this when they know of these other existing options then they're a cruel person in my book.
It's not disgusting...
If someone were to feed their dogs cats because they enjoyed the meat and it was all they wanted to consume while someone else found out about it I'm sure the owner would be fined and tried for animal cruelty. However, based off the principals you're suggesting this would not be cruel because the animal needed to eat the cats to survive.
People consider other people who eat dogs, cats, rats, or snakes sick bastards. But they're not because all animals are just that, animals. If someone's going to complain about someone else diet when you're eating other animals that are equally if not more intelligent then the ones we consider pets then they're a hypocrite and need to keep their mouth shut.
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I'm sure you read it but couldn't refute my points.
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Says the person who read my other reply and won't argue it for the same reason, then.
I actually didn't read anything past you saying you were going to bypass my third point, and it was only that I came back to look again 'cause Elo said it was lovely that you decided to not respond to my fifth or sixth points either.
Congrats on deluding yourself into believing you've better logic than me. I seriously don't care. My pythons aren't complaining on how I feed them,, so until they do, your logic is pointless to me.
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Your logic on #4 is completely ridiculous. Why? Because by feeding a captive snake, you have essentially removed it from the wild and are playing God. It's in a completely artificial environment. Snakes ambush their own prey, they are not given to them by a human hand. As for #1, while you're not killing the animal yourself, you are setting the motions that make it happen. Technically, you're using the snake to kill the animal.
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"You're an idiot for thinking feeding snakes is as easy as giving a dog a fucking bowl of Dog Chow."
Please point out where I said it was.
"Most snakes caught in the wild won't eat a thawed rat because they've survived on hunting and catching live, moving prey"
If that's the case, it's my opinion that wild animals shouldn't be kept as pets which is a different discussion completely.
"captive bred snakes who were allowed to diet on live mice usually won't convert to thawed mice;"
I've known other snake owners who have easily converted their snakes to thawed mice, actually.
"and I end up having to thaw them longer and when I do that they just fall apart and become a nasty, bloody mess."
I'm sorry that making sure your mice are fully thawed inconveniences you but to me that still does not justify live feeding.
"We purchase snakes to own and care for snakes, not to own and care for snakes AND mice."
They are still domestic animals that depend on you for their welfare, regardless.
"I will feed my babies live mice before I ever think to let them starve."
I never suggested that you let them starve. If they absolutely will not eat frozen mice, I would suggest getting freshly killed ones, if that doesn't work either, then go ahead and feed them live.
I'm only saying that if a humane option is available the humane option should be taken. I'm not saying I hate you for your opinion or anything, so your attacks and telling me to "stfu" and calling me ignorant are totally unwarranted.
"will also bitch about how lizard/frog/arachnid owners feed their animals LIVE crickets and LIVE mealworms."
Which would be a valid argument if insects had pain receptors. Crickets and mealworms are not rats, in case you forgot.
Maybe you could try replying without the emotionally-charged attitude, it really doesn't help you.
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You seriously can't just let this goddamn argument go, can you?
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WerewolfOfTheWater does have a point. If you're going to complain to her about it, complain to every other poster who wont stop commenting or replying.
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Still, I have a valid point lol.
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What about everyone else who keeps replying to me? Why don't you yell at them about letting it go? I also never said a SINGLE WORD about the picture, so nice lying there.
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Also, lying? Bullshit. I went off from the fact that you're arguing over how mice should be fed to snakes, which pretty much sums up the WHOLE picture. Just because you didn't comment DIRECTLY on it doesn't mean that's not what this argument is about.
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I said you were lying because of this statement: "Stop acting like the picture is some sort of PERSONAL AFFRONT to your humanity"
When I said nothing about the picture.
I don't think you even read the comments, did you?
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That doesn't change the fact that "lying" is completely the wrong word to use in this situation.
Even if you're not bitching about the picture directly, you're talking about the subject matter. Did that statement fly directly over your goddamn head while you were too busy typing out these characteristically long replies? It's a snake eating a mouse. You're talking about snakes eating mice.
So, to revise my earlier statement:
Stop acting like snakes eating live mice is a personal affront to your humanity.
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Then maybe we both needed better word choices.
"Stop acting like snakes eating live mice is a personal affront to your humanity."
I'm not. I'm arguing that it's morally better to take a humane approach when one is available. That is all. 
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Because they're making a valid argument.
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That doesn't really have anything to do with not letting the argument go. And really, whether they are making a valid argument or not is merely your opinion.
Most of the people replying to me replied to me in response to a comment I made to SOMEONE ELSE. If you want the argument to stop, then stop dragging it out when I wasn't even addressing you in the first place.
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Alright then, if it's going to be about the length of the argument, I'll shorten it for you.
Two things:
tl;dr
And...
Shut the FUCK up.
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No. It's just kind of silly to want me to shut up when you keep replying to me. If you don't want to read my posts then stop talking to me, lol.
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When you want someone to shut up, what do you do;
1. Keep replying to them without stopping while demanding they "let it go"
2. ignore them so you don't have to read their posts anymore
seems like 2 would be an easier option
but hey
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Sorry, I totally forgot that this is a public site. Maybe you should have sent a note to the snake owner rather than bitching publicly.
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I know this is a public site. I don't mind people replying to comments I made to somebody else and I never said I did. It just seems silly to be complaining about the comments when you can easily stop yourself. I'm not forcing anyone to reply, lol.
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