HOME | DD
Bullter —
8.Tiger python_attack
[NSFW]
Published: 2008-07-14 16:40:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 29832; Favourites: 1029; Downloads: 230
Redirect to original
Description
Python molurus bivittatus and rattRelated content
Comments: 1833
Fair enough, I did say negative things, but nothing close the kind of things you said. Keeping your beliefs to yourself would probably be a good thing, I said what I said, for the sake of the artist, because he posted his photography, and have people bitching at him for animal cruelty.
How would you feel if you posted your artwork and people just started flipping out at you? ... Wait, it doesn't look like you post art work.
Secondly, It's a snake... What do you expect it to eat? a Salad?
I'm pretty sure if the snake could choose its meal, it would choose a mouse over anything dead.
It's a noble cause to try to help the treatment of animals, it really is, I have a dog who I rescued from neglectful owners, and I love him to bits.
But sometimes you just have to look at the whole picture, and maybe stop and think. "Wow, when did my opinions make me such an ass hole." Maybe before you start to freak out over animal cruelty, You should talk to the artist, and try to understand his side, understand who he really is. Or would you rather be close minded and assume he rips the wings of butterfly's for pleasure. It really is easy to hate those who disagree with you when you make monsters of them isn't it?
Reminds me a bit of propaganda. The worlds a big place, You're not going to change it by voicing your opinion the way you are doing it now.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Jesus people. Not all snakes will eat dead things. Some enjoy the hunt, it's in their instincts.
But about the picture itself, FANTASTIC! You've captured the epitome of nature itself, the circle of life. This IS nature, and it's not always cute and family-friendly.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
No actually they will eat dead things. Predators will obtain food in a stress-free way if they can. They are opportunists. They don't really give a damn about the "thrill of the hunt" that's anthropomorphizing I think. Humans might enjoy hunting but predators do it because they have to. Hunting in the wild in reality when you are a wild animal can be an extremely dangerous thing.
For example live rats may fight back and severely injure the snake. I've seen pictures of injured snakes by people who live fed them and the rats decided to fight back. Should the snake owners just let them die from their injuries? After all that happens in nature too.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Sorry, you're wrong here. Snakes are not opportunistic feeders. Whether they "enjoy" hunting or not is debatable, but if a wild snake were to come across an already dead mouse that's been lying there, it would not eat it. How do I know that? Because I know snakes. Not as well as experienced snake-keepers, but sure know a lot more than someone who would claim they're opportunists who will eat anything given the chance. Raccoons are opportunists. Dogs are opportunists. Reptiles are not. Do you have any idea how hard it is even to feed already-dead crickets to a gecko? For a carnivorous reptile to have any interest in it's prey there have to be two things. Movement, and body heat. A mouse on the forest floor that's been laying dead for an hour has neither of these. The snake would go past it, uninterested, and be looking for a moving target.
You're also wrong in saying converting snakes is easy. No, you left an important word out of that sentence. The word is "some" ...Converting SOME snakes is easy. Converting other snakes is hard, and converting other snakes yet is impossible.
Snakes are individuals as much as cats, dogs, and even humans. Just because you "know someone who easily converted a snake to pre-killed" doesn't mean all snakes will just as happily be converted. You're ignorant for thinking it's as easy as simply heating up the mouse and wiggling it in front of the snake. It's far more complicated. Don't talk until you've converted a ball-python yourself--those ones are well-known for being extremely hard to convert.
Saying this, I don't support live-feeding. Not for the "humane" aspect... I honestly hate mice and seriously did consider giving my dog a live mouse as a treat (the only reason I decided not to was because of the mess it would make). I hate mice and I don't care how they die, but it's true they will sometimes defend themselves. I support pre-killed because I care about the snake.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If you're unconcerned about animal welfare and only care about snakes, then it's useless to have this discussion with you. Mice feel pain, think, and feel too, like snakes do.
Though if you want someone more experienced with snakes than you who's against live feeding, here you go: [link]
He seems to have no issue getting his snakes to eat pre-killed food, so I don't know what your excuse is.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Again you are assuming all snakes are like the ones mentioned. If you're so dead set on the idea that snakes are robots with no personality who all conform to one standard, rather than individuals, each with their own personalities and likes and dislikes, there's no point in having this discussion with you.
I said I DO NOT support live feeding (for the sake of the snake who's dinner could attack it) but unlike you I am aware there are many snakes out there who wont have it any other way. I'll remind you of Ball Pythons who are notorious for being extremely hard to convert.
It's not a matter of skill to convert a snake. It all comes down to will the snake eat it? If not, do you propose we starve the poor thing just to save a few mice who are going to end up as food for some other reptile anyways? You don't care very much about the welfare of animals either if you think that, sonny.
And think of this. Frozen mice are just that. Frozen. They were alive once upon a time too, and they died (most frozen mice are suffocated with carbon dioxide. How is that more humane than being suffocated by a constrictor, or even poisoned for those out there who keep venomous snakes?) and their bodies were frozen. By feeding frozen you're not saving anything's life, because something has to die in the end anyways.
I'll repeat, I'm all for frozen mice. I love the snakes and don't want them to get hurt by their prey, and if a snake CAN be converted to frozen (which again, NOT ALL SNAKES CAN, idiot) then by all means it should. But I'll repeat myself one last time to get it through your thick mouse-loving skull, not all snakes are as happy to be converted as you think. They are individuals just like you and me, and just because one snake will eat frozen, doesn't mean another will.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I never said all snakes are the same, I just linked you to a video of a snake handler who has worked with many many snakes over the years and he's managed to only use pre-killed food. There's ways to get a snake to eat a pre-killed mouse. If all you do is throw them a frozen mouse and then go "oop he won't eat it" then you're probably not even trying. You can warm it up, buy a live mouse and kill it quickly yourself, or put it on a stick and wiggle it around to make it seem like it's alive..there are ways to deal with the more finicky snakes.
You even admitted, you fucking retard, that you are not an expert on snakes. I showed you a video of someone who IS an expert at snakes that's against live feeding. So don't call me an idiot for pointing you to someone who knows more than you and disagrees with you. Idiot.
I never said the snake should starve, so you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not talking about "saving its life" either, I'm talking about treating it humanely out of a basic sense of human compassion because we're supposedly above causing needless suffering as humans. But thanks for throwing out all those lovely strawman fallacies at me.
And again if you have no concern for animals other than snakes then it's pointless to have a discussion about animal welfare with you since you don't give a shit about the other animals involved other than the snake anyway. That's the difference between you and me since I care about being humane to any animal with the capacity to suffer. If you don't care about what happens to a mouse then how the fuck can I convince you that live feeding is wrong because it's inhumane to the mouse? Derp.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"There's ways to get a snake to eat a pre-killed mouse."
No shit, dumbass. I'm talking about when those ways fail. You're the one who seems to think converting snakes is as easy as heating up a mouse and wiggling it around. When even the chicken broth method and the brain-stirring method (forgot the real name for that one) don't work, you're pretty much out of luck.
No, I'm not an expert on snakes. Yes I am against live feeding (why is this so hard for you to understand? You're even more thick-headed than I thought) but unlike you I am aware that some snakes simply will not be converted. Stop being so blind about it. You sound like some fucking PETA-freak, preaching all this "humane treatment" stuff. Also you seem to have completely missed the point I made that frozen mice are still mice who have *gasp!* been killed. By feeding frozen you are not saving any rodents from inhumane treatment. The only critter you're saving is the snake who wont be attacked by his dinner.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Right, I must be a PETA-freak to care about animal welfare beyond that of my own pets. Really, it's pointless to continue a discussion with someone who brands anyone who disagrees with them as a "PETA-freak" (even though I don't support PETA) It's funny how many people will brand anyone as a PETA-freak if they so much as suggest that an animal shouldn't be tortured. Oh god fucking forbid. That was enough for me to permanently brand you as a complete moron congrats.
You seem to have missed my response to that point: I'm not disputing killing mice, I'm disputing throwing them in a cage while they are still alive to be slowly eaten, scared and tortured, and if frozen mice is inhumane then there's still nothing stopping you from simply bopping a mouse that you bought on the head and killing it quickly.
You fucking dipshit. I'm aware that you're against live feeding but you're still defending the inhumane treatment of mice for whatever fucking reason. Like I said, if you don't care about the welfare of any other animals besides your own snakes, then what is the fucking point in discussing it with you?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You want this to be a name calling match don't you kiddo? I'm not sure you're even aware of how snakes eat mice are you?
Eaten alive? No. A constrictor will squeeze it's prey to death before it begins eating it. Tortured? No more so than suffocating them with carbon dioxide can be considered torture. Snakes aren't capable of torture. They don't have that kind of mentality.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Wow, you didn't even read do you? If they're tortured when frozen, then why not just buy a live mouse then kill it yourself with a quick bop on the head? You still haven't explained why that's so fucking difficult.
Snakes aren't capable of INTENTIONAL torture but that doesn't mean they can't cause torture on something.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And how is a "bop" on the head humane when suffocation is not? Explain that.
It takes more than a "bop" to render a mouse unconscious.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Uh, because a lethal strike to the back of the head kills you quickly while suffocation makes you suffer a great deal before you do. It's not that complicated. It's not like it's difficult for a human to quickly kill an itty bitty little mouse. Are you like, that much of a weakling or something?
If you don't have the muscle for it, use a blunt object or something. It shouldn't be that difficult unless you're sqeamish, but I'm sure you have no issue with it since you're so eager to kill mice anyway.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And if you should miss (very easy to do, mind you. Mice are fast. Though I'm sure YOU've never killed one or even attempted it so you really wouldn't know now would you?) you've got a mouse with a fractured skull, still alive enough to feel it, twitching in agony. Ah, yes. That does sound like a pleasantly wonderful way to die! Thanks I'll beat mice to death from now on.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Then take the mouse in your hand and give it a quick twist to snap its neck. Or put it next to a mouse trap, put a little treat in the trap and let it do the work for you. Seriously how fucking hard can it possibly be to quickly kill a domesticated mouse that was bred to be handled by humans? Exactly how bad a pet handler are you?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So you've never even held a mouse? Huh. I've worked with domestic mice for 3 years. No, they are not any easier to hold just because they were "bred to be handled by humans." They still have their instincts that tell them to move fast, and slip away from what's holding them. You try snapping a mouse's neck. Not so easy now, is it? Oh dear, you've managed to snap its neck but it's brain stem is still intact. The thing is writhing in unimaginable pain in the bottom of it's box.
And do you know how often mouse traps fail? Surely you don't since you ACTUALLY suggested using one is more humane than suffocation.
Yet again I'm faced with an animal-rights freak who knows nothing about animals. Why do you preach what you don't understand? It really makes no sense.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I know plenty about animals, and I'm not an "animal rights freak." If you know so much about animals then why is it you can't even understand that there is a difference between animal rights and animal welfare, and accuse anyone disagreeing with you of being a "PETA-freak?"
Whoop, sorry I suggested that people should at least attempt to kill a mouse humanely before giving it to a snake, I guess that makes me an insane peta freak who bombs animal testing labs and pours red paint over people wearing fur coats. God you're a fucking knuckle dragging moron. It's become so fashionable to make fun of "peta freaks" that anyone who dares to suggest that an animal shouldn't be tortured is automatically labeled as one and dismissed completely. Grow the fuck up.
If you're trying to kill a mouse with the intention of giving it a quick death, it's much more likely to have a quick death rather than giving it to a snake that doesn't give a shit how quick its death is. And yes mouse traps fail but I've seen plenty of mouse traps containing a mouse with a snapped neck, I'm sure they died better than they would have being slowly suffocated by a snake that doesn't give a crap.
If you don't care about the welfare of mice then why are you trying to argue about it? You don't care either way so who gives a fuck. It's pointless.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
My, my! Someone needs their mouth washed out with soap. Oh, but not soap made from cow or goat milk. That would be cruel and inhumane. We should all use vegan soap.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'm not a vegan.
Boy, somebody must have ran out of arguments.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Then why do you care so much about a few mice? Going to preach animal welfare about one animal, but not another? Shame on you! Do you know what they do to cows before they're slaughtered? Chickens? Pigs? Much more inhumane than suffocating a mouse with carbon dioxide. I'll tell you that.
Go wash your mouth out kiddo, read some books on animals, use a few mouse traps to see how innacurately they kill mice, attempt to snap a few necks, and convert a few ball pythons. For that matter, how about you challenge yourself and convert one of every kind of snake commonly kept as pets. Add a venomous type like a rattler to the mix just to challenge yourself. Come talk to me again when you've had a bit of experience.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Why do you care so much about a few snakes?
When did I preach welfare for one animal but not another? Isn't that what you're doing actually, since you outright said you care about your snakes but not mice?
I challenge you to find a single thing I said that was along the lines of "snakes should starve" or "I don't give a shit about snakes"
You can't because it doesn't exist.
good luck trying though.
And that snake handler I linked you to has already done those things, but it hasn't convinced you, so it's kinda pointless isn't it
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
They succeeded! Yay them! They were lucky enough that all the snakes they had weren't picky and were easily converted. Many of us aren't so lucky to have snakes that will eat anything. You seem to constantly be ignoring that.
How many times do I have to repeat that not ALL snakes will take a thawed mouse. You can warm it up past normal body temperature. You can shake it like a maniac in front of that snake. You can stir it's brain to get the smell out there to hopefully entice the snake to take it. You can coat the thing in warm chicken broth to make it smell good. Many times this will work to convert a snake, but what you don't seem to be realizing (or not accepting) is that not every snake in the world is going to take it. I know people who have converted hundreds of snakes, too. Good for them. The difference between professional snake handlers and you, is that even through all their success, they still realize and accept that not every snake in the entire world is going to take a pre-killed mouse, no matter what you do.
I honestly don't know how to explain it any better than that. If you're still too ignorant to understand it, there's no helping you. Sorry kiddo. Good luck in life.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And yet, you yourself say that you're against live feeding for the sake of your snakes. So what do YOU do when you get a snake that won't eat pre-killed mice?
You said you weren't a snake expert, and so I linked you to a video of someone who IS a snake expert with more experience and knowledge than you who cared about the welfare of the mice he fed his snakes, so experience doesn't mean as much to you as you say it does, clearly.
I never said that if you have a snake that won't eat pre-killed mice that you should simply let it starve. All I ever said, in this entire comment thread, that you should at least ATTEMPT to kill a mouse or rat humanely before just tossing it to a snake. All the arguments presented by you and others have been riddled with retarded fallacies. Particularly strawman fallacies with you.
It's nice to know that you have video cameras in my house recording my daily activities allowing you know exactly how much experience I do or don't have. You must be one smart person.
Talk to me again when you're actually willing to read what I said and stop making up things that I've never said at all.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Idiot. Killing the mouse yourself is the same as giving your snake a thawed mouse. If it wont take a pre-killed mouse, then it wont take a pre-killed mouse. Period. Snakes not going to look at a mouse who was smashed in the head and say "oh! This is MUCH better than a thawed mouse. I'll take this one." Again if it wont eat pre-killed then it wont eat pre-killed. Stop being such a know-it-all when you clearly know nothing at all.
If I should get a snake that wont take pre-killed, then I will in fact feed it live, and watch it very closely that the mouse doesn't attack the snake. I make an acception to the way I feel, for the sake of the snake. Shame you can't possibly do the same.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Actually, it might be more inclined to eat one that's freshly killed rather than one that's been sitting around frozen for awhile, according to other people who own snakes. For someone who claims to know snakes you sure don't think about it much.
I never said I wouldn't make an exception if a snake absolutely wouldn't eat a pre-killed mouse. ONCE AGAIN, since reading is apparently too difficult for you, I'll repeat myself one last time: all I ever said is that one should at least attempt to kill a mouse humanely before throwing it to a snake. Once again you're putting words in my mouth. I never EVER claimed that I would let a snake starve.
LEARN TO FUCKING READ.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Nice one, turning what I said to you against me. Yep. You suuure are clever, potty mouth.
I seem to recall you saying I'm not worth talking to since I hate mice.
No, I don't know everything about snakes. I sure know a lot more than you though. That's quite obvious from everything you've said.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You don't know what I've said. You keep making up things that I've said without reading my posts. So how can you possibly even know? You're too illiterate.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Um.. what? Now who's run out of arguments?
You originally said, in the post I replied to, snakes are opportunists who will take an easy meal. Something that tells me you obviously have no idea what you're really saying, as it couldn't be further from the truth. I said no, they aren't. That was the beginning of this conversation. You then said I'm not worth talking to because I hate mice and don't care about their well being, yet you continued to talk to me for some reason. (If you're trying to get the last word in, you've got a long ways to go, kiddo. I don't back down easy.)
You kept bringing up this snake handler who's converted a lot of snakes, as if to prove every snake in the world can be converted, which is wrong. I kept explaining to you that it's wrong, and snakes, just like us, are individuals, yet you kept throwing the same thing back at me "I know snake handlers who have converted snakes~ wahh-wahh, whine-whine, bitch, moan, howl. You don't know anything." I continued trying to explain that not EVERY snake can be converted. You continued to ignore every point I made.
You started throwing complete nonsense in such as mouse traps--one of THE most innacurate forms of pest control--are actually more humane than suffocation through carbon dioxide. How you even came to such a conclusion is far beyond me. Guess that must make me stupid since I can't understand what gave you the idea that mouse traps cause instant death, when it is well known by everyone who's ever used one that no, 90% of the time they do not. Most of the time a mouse will be caught by it's neck, gut, leg, tail even, and be struggling for several minutes before it finally dies from hemorrhaging, or collapsing lungs, or whatnot. It's very VERY rare that the trap will precisely land right on that certain point that will cause instant death. Seriously, at least learn the basics of how something works before you go making up facts about it.
But thanks for the laugh, heh~ Mouse traps being more humane than carbon dioxide. That's a good one.
Anyways, you went on to say snapping a mouse's neck or smashing it on the head is easy, and again more humane than suffocation through carbon dioxide, which it is not. But of course you wouldn't know this as you've never attempted to snap a mouse's neck and would have no idea how hard it is to keep the vermin still while you get a good enough grip on it's head. Go on, prove me wrong. I'd love it if you could. That might show me you're more than just some whiny brat who doesn't even know what they're preaching.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Don't call me "kiddo" you're 2 years older than me. That's pretty pathetic you feel justified in doing that because of a 2 year age difference. I think you're a little insecure.
See, here's the thing: You're saying things I've never disputed. I said time and time again that you should just try to kill a mouse as humanely as possible before tossing it to a snake and that if the snake absolutely won't eat pre-killed then go ahead and give it live. But of course you are too illiterate to know that.
I brought up the snake handler because you kept talking about experience...well there you go I gave you someone with more experience than you.
You're assuming I've never snapped a mouse's neck or killed one before...please show me the video tapes you have of you recording my daily activities to prove this to be true.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'm assuming it based on a couple factors. 1. You think it's easy to do, which it is not. 2. You obviously love mice and would never hurt one. If I had video tapes then I wouldn't need to assume it now would I, kiddo?
I talked about having more experience than you. Something you seem to have missed.
"and that if the snake absolutely won't eat pre-killed then go ahead and give it live."
Quote me to where you said that. While you kept babbling about killing a mouse humanely (funnily enough in non-humane fashions such as using a mouse trap or breaking it's neck.. ha! PETA would be ashamed) not once did I see you say that. Read through all our discussion so far. Nope, you never said that up until now.
and I'm calling you kiddo because you keep acting like a kid with all the name-calling and potty mouth. 
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Oh?
I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I imagine most animals would be opportunists, but I've owned snakes before, and many of them would not under any circumstances eat a dead mouse.
And I know that live rats and such can fight back, that's why I always gave them many small ones rather than one really big one.
That may seem "unfair" but that's the way it is.
That being said, if you don't want to feed your animals live critters and they'll eat them dead, by all means do so.
(Also, some cats will kill even when they're not hungry, so I'm not entirely sure about them "not giving a damn" about the thrill.)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Actually apparently switching a snake from a live feeding diet to a pre-killed diet isn't very difficult. All you have to do is run the dead mouse or rat under hot water, and when first introducing them, get a freshly killed one.
Even small mice can fight back, I've read a few horror stories of people who used to live feed until a mouse stuck its teeth into their snake's lung and caused it's death, now they only feed pre-killed.
Cats aren't snakes though. Mammals have bigger brain cases than reptiles and are probably more interested in doing things just for fun than a snake would. Mammals have more cognitive ability than snakes so they're probably need more mental stimulation anyway. Cats will kill things for fun, sure, but if the cat was living in the wild and there was a dead mouse in front of them they would probably eat it. Domesticated cats that are kept in cozy houses may just hunt as an outlet for the instincts. But that's also why I try to discourage my cats from killing things and instead give them toys to play with. It doesn't mean snakes need to be given live prey.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Meh. I don't have any snakes anymore anyways.
You do things your way, I'll do them mine. Variety and whatnot.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Second Request
Greetings. May I have permission to use a couple of your images in a lesson plan that I am developing? I teach criminal justice classes and we study the "Retilian" brain. Your art work will help to make my lesson plan more visually engaging.
Thanks!
Tania
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Damn it's nice to FINALLY se a proper, well shot picture of a snake feeding 
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
apparently its cruelty lol a lil response art guys [link]
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gee, thanks for the smear campaign and misinterpreting my entire argument. I'm sure you'll be getting responses from people who haven't read the entire argument. Classy.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
nope they've read it on this :> so they understand.
you had no right to address me in the first place. seeing how i didnt ask for your input
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I had every right to address you.
You posted in a public place, in full view of everyone. It was not a PM, nor a private matter. Everything you post in public is open to discussion, I don't need to be asked for input. See the "reply" button at the bottom of your post... why is it there then for anyone to click?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
still it wasnt needed :> so leave it as that. and we should end it cause i tire of you
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I disagree. See, I don't sugar coat things... I am brutally honest.
But yes, I grow tired of it too so that is a good idea. Nothing personal.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
nothing personal either never took it that way
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
this is a beautiful display of nature. :> its funny people think its gross evn i have to feed my Argentinian horn frog live feeder mice its nature and its beauty :>
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
I couldn't agree more.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
thank you ^^ and yes I know this is old and i dont want to get into an argument with these idiots on DA but come on it happens in nature.. and humans do allot worse -.-
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Humans do much much worse, Ignorant humans who say things like "That's animal Cruelty" Do a lot worse on a daily basis without even realizing it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
I think your scenario applies more to the sort of people who protest the clubbing of baby seals, then go home in the afternoon and throw a glue trapped mouse into the bin (while it is still alive).
Yes, humans do worse... which is why no one is really taking it out on the snake, but rather the human that feeds live. I'm not really going to engage in another live feeding argument here, everything that has been said about it has been said already, ad infinitum, by several people.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It would be pointless to have one, I don't feel strongly for or against live feeding.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
omg thank you hon :/ I cant believe the BS people actually write on DA they really dont think before they type.. they just spew verbal diarrhea on everything XD
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
<= Prev | | Next =>