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8.Tiger python_attack
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Published: 2008-07-14 16:40:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 29832; Favourites: 1029; Downloads: 230
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Description
Python molurus bivittatus and rattRelated content
Comments: 1833
When the frog seeks out and eats its own prey in the wild, that is nature.
Flinging a live mouse into an enclosure with a frog, where it has no chance to escape, is not.
It is as "natural" as flinging a dog into a cage with a hungry lion.
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oh well thats its food deal and thats nature. :/ by your avi I can see why your a bit butt hurt. but face it there are animals of pray and animals who are predators I bet your going to say that feeding my frog live bugs is a crime too gro up -.-. and you example was so not relevant since throwing a dog to a lion makes no damn sense....FAIL
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I'm against live feeding for two reasons:
1) It's unnecessarily cruel to the prey animal. You don't have to draw out its death just because you want to feed another animal.
2) Live feeding is potentially dangerous to the lizard/amphibian.
Plus, in Australia, it is illegal to feed live vertebrates.
I'm not going to get into a big fuss with bugs because they don't even feel pain, nor have the receptive and emotional abilities as a mammal would so the two are not even comparable. The animals are prey in the wild, in captivity they are merely items... at least in the wild they have the opportunity to escape. A live feeding gets rid of that opportunity, and is a little unfair in my view. There's no point feeding live when you can feed pre-killed.
If you don't understand the analogy and don't see the principle behind it, that's your fault.
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1) It's unnecessarily cruel to the prey animal. You don't have to draw out its death just because you want to feed another animal.
key word you said pray as in food for another animal -.- god your ann idiot. and its quiet nessasary to feed my frog them because he doesnt eat things dead. not to mention the store directs me to the FEEDER MICE when i go for his food sinse he is to big for bugs.
2) Live feeding is potentially dangerous to the lizard/amphibian.
give me a link or site of proof wrere you heard that BS from cause the pet shop I bought my frog from said y I must feed him feeder fish and mice -.- you cand provide some proof your kinda just speaking a load of Bull.
Plus, in Australia, it is illegal to feed live vertebrates.
and I live in new york :/ i dont give much about Australia's rules if its legal in the states very legal in fact its considered cruelty if you dont feed the the frog and just let it starve -.-
and for the recored im pretty sure bugs feel pain its a living creature so it does but face it some animals are ment for food and others are ment to eat them grow up plz. your a real idiot :/ hon you know that dont tell me how to take care of my pet nor this guy with his snake. its great you like mice but you know what i hate animals of prey not to mention rodents in general they are boring.... I adore frogs but mine just eats well anything and right now its the size to eat other feeder animals. seriously your taking this way to far to the point it makes no sense now. I mean you even compared a dog to a mouse :/ mice are kinda pests.. while dogs are more well not mice. so thats why it made no sense for that example. as for your last statement.....
The animals are prey in the wild, in captivity they are merely items... at least in the wild they have the opportunity to escape. A live feeding gets rid of that opportunity, and is a little unfair in my view. There's no point feeding live when you can feed pre-killed.
there you go again with key words :/ prey. in the wild or in captivity they are still prey. but heres the catch there are feeder mice and pet mice which are jumbo the sized of s puppy which they dont give you to feed only as pets. so yes certain mice are food for others dead or alive while others are pets I think you should get your facts straight and stop being ignorant ..........
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So what if it's a "prey" animal? Using pre-killed eliminates the fear and pain factor, and it also eliminates the risk. I understand the reason to feed animals to other animals, but doing it live seems a little wrong to me. You're chucking it into an enclosure where it can't escape, at least in the wild it has that opportunity. The animal you throw in doesn't have that instinctual ability like its wild cousins would have either because it has been in captivity all its life.
I will tell you from experience that live feeding can result in heavy vet bills, and maybe even the death of your pet, because one of those feeders fought back. Pre-killed is the kinder thing to do for both your pet and the feeder animal.
But according to you it's just a prey animal, boring and a pest so its pain shouldn't matter, right? Unbelievable.
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pets been fine so far hon. so i suggest you find something better to do rather then going through comments on this persons art looking for an argument have a nice day. also never said the last part I like how people on DA like to talk for people. my pet has been fine ive had it for years and fed it mice give me a break hon :/
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key word you said pray as in food for another animal -.- god your ann idiot. and its quiet nessasary to feed my frog them because he doesnt eat things dead. not to mention the store directs me to the FEEDER MICE when i go for his food sinse he is to big for bugs.
Don't go calling people idiots when you can't even spell words correctly. Have you even tried feeding them pre-killed meat? You can always convert the diet to pre-killed if you actually do a little research and bother to try.
give me a link or site of proof wrere you heard that BS from cause the pet shop I bought my frog from said y I must feed him feeder fish and mice -.- you cand provide some proof your kinda just speaking a load of Bull.
It's not BS. Look at the various comments here and you will see that from people who own lizards, they know well enough about the danger live feeding can be. There will be a time where a mouse will actually fight back... see they have extremely sharp incisor teeth that could easily rip through flesh. And if you want further proof, I will direct you to these sites:
[link]
[link]
[link]
Let's quote one of them:
I was feeding my Brazilian rainbow boa like I usually did. I removed the driftwood from her cage but left the plants inside because she preferred to hide in them before she attacked. I put a medium sized rat in the pet cage as usual. As usual, she attacked quickly. However, she made a fatal error. She managed to get herself bit, and that caused her to puncture her lung. She died a few minutes later.
I mean, FFS, you can Google all this information yourself. There is a HUGE amount of information out there on why live feeding is bad. Unfortunately for you, you are a very close-minded and ignorant individual who doesn't give a damn if the animal you are giving your frogs suffer unnecessarily or not.
and I live in new york :/ i dont give much about Australia's rules if its legal in the states very legal in fact its considered cruelty if you dont feed the the frog and just let it starve -.-
Did I tell you not to feed it? Geez, and you call me an idiot.
and for the recored im pretty sure bugs feel pain its a living creature so it does but face it some animals are ment for food and others are ment to eat them grow up plz. your a real idiot :/
How can bugs feel pain when they don't even have pain receptors, nor the necessary cognitive ability? You tell me that. I'm not arguing the point that some animals are food for others, of course they are... my beef is with LIVE feeding in CAPTIVITY. And don't tell me to grow up when you're calling me an idiot and resorting in attacking the man, rather than the argument.
its great you like mice but you know what i hate animals of prey not to mention rodents in general they are boring.... I adore frogs but mine just eats well anything and right now its the size to eat other feeder animals. seriously your taking this way to far to the point it makes no sense now.
Just because you hate something or find it "boring" doesn't give you an excuse to put it through a lot of pain. And I note you said your frogs eat anything... if that is true, then why are you feeding them live mice? Why not either pre-killed or a friggin' locust/cockroach?
:/ mice are kinda pests.. while dogs are more well not mice. so thats why it made no sense for that example. as for your last statement.....
Of course I compared them with dogs. Do you know why? Because they're both mammals, and they can both feel pain. What you failed to notice though was that I was comparing two situations - throwing a live mouse to a frog in an enclosure is NO DIFFERENT than throwing a live dog to a caged lion. It is the same damn principle - you're feeding something live to a hungry animal that would eat it if it was in the wild. You're putting the animal through unnecessary anxiety and pain. The fact that you're calling mice "pests" as a way to ignore it says you don't really understand what I'm on about here. That feeder mouse is not a pest, it is a domesticated animal... it isn't going around, pooping on your floor and chewing on wires.
in the wild or in captivity they are still prey. but heres the catch there are feeder mice and pet mice which are jumbo the sized of s puppy which they dont give you to feed only as pets.
Feeder mice and pet mice are the same damn thing. But this is not my point...
I think you should get your facts straight and stop being ignorant .........
Ignorant about what? I already told you that I am not against feeding animals to other animals, that I am just against LIVE feeding. And I gave perfectly valid reasons, and even provided you links. But of course, I am the ignorant one when YOU claim domesticated mice are pests, and think the dangers of live feeding is BS.
If people have to feed live as a last resort, when there is NO other way... then, yeah, I can live with that. But people like you piss me off because you show NO respect to the animals you are using as food items for your pets. It's like you only see them as food items, inanimate objects and nothing more... and not living, breathing, feeling creatures.
You need to realise that as a human who has animals in captivity, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure their welfare... pets, feeders, whatever. Maybe one day when a mouse decides to be brave and decides to use its sharp teeth to fight back... maybe you will be more the wiser.
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-.- dont really care I have different views. so do the people in the petshop who told me the predator animals prefer live animals so will continue do feeding my frog mice you dont like it you buy and Argentinian frog and starve it its yor problem. my pet has been fine. and you know what people like me you obviously have no life commenting through thousands of comments on photo who agree with this persons methods :/ hmm really now? you keep saying in the wild or captivity who care.... they feeders they mice bred for food face it dead or alive how ever you see it is cruelty anyways but its food for the pet who eats them. I suggest you find a hobby instead of looking for arguments. I can tell your a rat lover but your taking it way too far :/ even people that have rats for pets understand that thier are animals that the smaller mice are fed too. i guess your kind of dense to understand the food chain :/ weather its in captivity or the wild animals all have their place :/
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Haha, you assume I have no life when when it has only taken me an hour to sift through and reply to some of those comments?
Very funny.
What person's methods? What are you blabbering on about? I don't disagree with the picture at all... in fact, the person who posted the picture didn't feed his/her snake a live rat. I understand the food chain very well thank you very much, but what you can't seem to grasp is that we as humans should well know when not to abuse it. We are the only animal capable of being rational and seeing the consequences of our actions, not only that... but we can view right from wrong.
I don't know how old you are but if I am arguing with a 13 year old, I'm not really going to bother anymore because an argument with a child is a fruitless exercise. You don't seem to understand what is getting said to you and you can't seem to form a coherent reply. The live vs pre-killed issue has an ethical component to it which is pretty deep, and it is apparent you don't have any idea.
Oh, and thanks for posting a huge wall of text on my userpage. If you want to continue arguing, keep it here... and not in a place where it is not really needed.
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haha ignoring this comment didnt even bother reading. since i left you something on your page
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Of course you'll ignore it, you really have no valid rebuttal. Childish posturing, like blocking your ears going "lalala" and pretending it's not there.
Yes, I read that too... I noted that in the last part of the message. Your wall of text doesn't belong there, if you're really going to post a long winded post about things already refuted or of no relevance, use something called paragraphs next time. Because reading it hurt as much as a mouse being eaten alive by a frog.
You definitely are inhumane (if you don't know what that word means, get a dictionary).
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still ignoring seeing how you blocked me and you cant respects peoples vies so ive done the same have a nice day
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I blocked you because you moved the conversation to a place where it shouldn't be... I don't appreciate this crap on my userpage. And secondly it was a giant wall of text and that made quite a mess. The argument is HERE, for all to read, if you want to discuss the topic further, keep it here. I was kind enough not to move it to your userpage, and I expected the same from you.
Your view is completely ignorant and ill-informed, some of the things you have said bordered on stupidity. You also resorted to insults, pretty much ignored what had been said and now you're saying I can't respect people's views?
Haha.
Only yours, perhaps. But only because you played the man, not the ball... and tried to completely misinterpret what I was saying. Why on earth should I respect your view if you're going to be childish about it? You have a lot to learn about "respect", and arguing for that matter.
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doesn't matter its still my view not to mention i have a right to it. I dont recall asking you for your opinion either when i was addressing the artists photo. I ignored it basically because i did ask you for your opinion :> I moved it to your page because your clogging this artist photography with nonsense. if you dont like it dont look its thats simple. also Ill just imply that im not stubborn from your last comment im very opinionated and you should respect my view seeing how I didnt say your view was the wrong method in the first place.
what I was saying was that I have my way of feeding my pet and ive been doing so for years. and thats live pray,such as,small feeder fish, mice,crickets ect. now look the pet store I went too said there are two risks in feeding a pet pre-killed and live food. with pre-kill the animal most likely wont want it or spit it up. with live food there is a choking risk if its too big or it will fight back. but if it was in the wild it would also face these challenges regardless with live food.
and to say what i said was stupid even makes you more ignorant seeing how i explained everything and also understood your view but i guess you just want it your way. what you have to understand is that your different when it comes to views and not saying its wrong not at all but it seems your tying to force your opinion rather then tell it from what ive noticed.
even went over this convo with a friend to see if i was in the wrong seeing that she has a pet snake. and she said her snake mainly eats live pray even when she jiggles prekilled food it ignores her. but the reaction given when she gives it live prey is more normal were he hides,catches it, then eats it showing that the snake is okay when it comes to basic instincts.
also I called you a hypocrite not as an insult but a fact when I brought up how you eat. even though its dead meat it was once alive at a farm were it was butchered and killed and sold to market where you could buy it,cook it,and eat it. but basically these are feeder animals for us which is why i found it odd you tried to explain it differently
that last part you said said made no sense or relevance hon and i think your taking this way to personal in my opinion
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We are going to go in circles, so let's stop here. Otherwise I'm going to have to repeat myself ad infinitum.
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no worries youve got fanart so enjoy yourself
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lolcomments
Nature photography gets people goin' more than Peta videos.
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If this was in the wild id except it. But this isnt (I dont think)and i dont. I understand that this is nature, but its also horrible.
And isnt feeding live food to a snake dangerous?
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The only thing natural about it is the fact that the snake eats, nothing more.
When you look at the actual situation (ie. captivity), it is not natural at all.
All these "it's nature" arguments are a load of crap TBH.
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Agreed. I would only disagree if this picture was taken in the wild. I.E when you see a lion kill an antelope. Yet this isnt, There was no need for the rat to be alive.
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Indeed. I used to work in a petshop, and believe me, idiot snake owners came up to me and wanted their money back, because I sold them rabbits which were apparently "too aggressive" for their snake to handle, ripping up the snake's abdomen, blinding them etc. I even had people who came back with rats that had partially eaten their snake.
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Relax, people, this is completely natural.
Just like dog fighting is natural. Dogs fight in the wild too, right?
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How can you even compare feeding a snake it's food to something like dog fighting?
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By the wonderful means of logic.
Human gives animal to another animal... one of the animals kills the other... another lives on... human is happy. And the winning animal is happy until it gets mauled to pieces one day. Bawwwww
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And my comment honestly is not meant to approach the image at hand at all, just your comparisons.
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Excuse me? How is that even logical. You give the mouse to a snake to feed it, to keep it alive. You help it do something it would otherwise do in nature. Dog fighting is simply for sick pleasure to the humans. You cannot possibly consider what you just said "logical" in any way.
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I'm sorry, I just think that a person shouldn't be responsible for a pet's suffering, if he decides to buy one. In nature, a snake suffocates its food because it has no other choice. When a human is responsible for its food, the choice is given to him.
Don't get me wrong, of course a snake needs to have food. I've fed snakes with everything from mice to baby guinea pigs - that's not the issue. My issue is that DA shouldn't promote an unnecessary feeding method (which at the same time is a potential danger to the snake), when you can humanely kill a rodent by breaking its neck or putting it in a CO2 chamber, before giving it to a snake. I find it irresponsible for any pet owner to gamble with his animals' lives.
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Uhm. I think I said I was not approaching the image at hand. Meaning the live/dead feeding issue. I'm talking about how you are, and read slowly, comparing DOG FIGHTING to feeding a snake a live rat.
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Okay, okay, so let me spell it out for you: Some people like to watch animals fight each other and die. Be they dogs or rats, they're put in the same "fight or die" situation by a human being. Is it somewhat clear now?
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I'm an owner of 5 rats myself and it does make me sad to see this. I do love snakes and understand the need for them to eat though. I don't endorse live feeding however. Aren't you concerned that your snake could be injured? One of the rats I have currently is only in my possession now because she attacked, blinded and almost KILLED the 4 ft python that was going to be eating her. I don't know a ton about snakes, but I have owned a few, and in my experience the ones I have had have easily converted from live food to frozen/prekilled. I would highly suggest this method over live feeding.
Onto the DD part of this piece. I see absolutely nothing DD worthy here. Are they really slipping that much? It's a snake eating a rat. Wow. Really stunning. So if I go and take a picture of my tarantula eating a cricket, or a cat killing a bird, that's DD worthy? Cause if it is, I'm out the door now.
I understand all the defensive replies about composition and angle and lighting and zoom blah blah blah. Here. Here is a picture my 51 year old mother took with her camera of some baby bluebirds. [link] WOW look at that composition, the lighting, the focus. And she did absolutely nothing. The camera did the work for her. My point is, you see hundreds of shots better than this all over dA, and this is DD worthy?
dA is losing it's touch. This is why I don't pay attention to DDs anymore, because they're letting infants choose what's worthy of being displayed on their front page.
(Sorry to the photographer if they weren't wanting critiqued. Just my opinion. 
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If you have a problem then go to talk about me featuring it as a DD. I am sorry but honestly, I disagree with you that it isn't warranted to be featured, it is a dead on shot with great attention to exposure and detail, if you believe you can do just as good, with your Tarantula, then go for it and suggest it to me, however I think you will realize that taking shots like these are a LOT harder than what you think 
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I can't say as I care enough to take it to a higher authority because like I said, I pay no attention to DDs anymore. This one was only brought to my attention because other members were freaking out about it being animal abuse, which I strongly disagree with.
The point I was trying to make with her age was anyone can get good shots nowadays just because the camera does the work for them. As for the aspects of her photo I was trying to use some sarcasm.
The content mostly is why it's not DD worthy. Detail? Sure, the fact that it's a snake and has so many scales gives it detail alone. I have an old Nikon so I understand how hard it can be to get shots with a manual(can't think of the right word for them besides manual) camera, but who's to say this wasn't a digital camera at work? It really IS that easy to get shots like that when your camera does everything for you. I'd much rather see a grainy, hard-gotten shot of anything else taken by an old manual camera as opposed to something like this that's quite easy to get.
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I've come to see DD's as not just "the best of the best" type of picks. I also consider them controversial images. And what is this image if not controversial?
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I don't see the debate on manual film vs digital here, both are viable mediums and I shoot both, I have a Minolta x370 and a Ricoh KR5 in my current arsenal for film, along with several Minolta Maxxum film bodies. *Bullter though is a quality shooter, one look at his gallery and you will see he isn't an auto shooter by any means. He is just to skilled for that.
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This has nothing to do with the photograph, but I am so fucking sick of people acting like a rat's life isn't as important as their precious Rover or their beloved Mittens. Same with snakes. God, the intelligence of these people is at one both astounding and depressing.
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I entirely agree. It's really sad, isn't it?
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I apologize for not commenting on the picture itself. It's very wonderfully composed. Congrats on the DD.
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I am just captivated by this photograph! I teach criminal justice classes and include in my lesson a segment about the human brain. We discuss the "Reptilian Brain" as the part of the human brain that cares only about the basics: hunger, sex and survival. May I have permission to use your photograph during my lesson, just to make things interesting? I will give you credit for the work, of course.
BTW, there will be several wildlife officers in the class who I am sure will love your photograph as much as I do.
Thanks,
Tania
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To all the people saying THIS is distasteful because of the dead rat. If you have ever seen a stray cat eat a rat, it's ALOT more gruesome than this.
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i think it's sad for the rat but it's a good picture and i don't think there's anything wrong with it cause it's just nature
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Very interesting and a rather hard image to photograph. The colors and the lighting on this piece really struck me; You have your lights and your darks. It seems to drag me to the rat while following the spotted scales of the snake. I may not be a photographer, but I know a good photo when I see one. This just happens to be a freakin' wonderful photo.
It's a way of life for those that are kept in captivity, they have to be fed somehow instead of the human hand. Unless they kill off and eat the person that has them bounded down, or find another way out, they are stuck. I don't think they'd want to die just because they are under the care of a human...
Some snakes are kept in the care of the wrong people, I know this. It's a sad thing, really it is. You have to know how to take care of a snake in order to keep one. Not many people do and it ends up dead or in a situation that ends its life. I am glad though, that there are people out there who know how to take care of the snakes that were/are kept in captivity like they have been. Though I feel sorry for the snakes that have stupid, ignorant, people taking rather ridiculous care of their poor snakes...
And here is where I lost my train of thought. Wonderful photo catch though. ^^
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I love the way that the whiskers burst out of the mouth. It's almost like the mouse is wearing a helmet that's too big for it's head.
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This has been featured in my journal - [link]
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