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Cloudrunner64 — Nordanner Foals: Bay
Published: 2016-01-24 22:33:20 +0000 UTC; Views: 4338; Favourites: 32; Downloads: 0
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Description
Nordanner is a semi-realistic fantasy breed that uses real life genetics, and combines them with fantastical elements. These sheets are meant for the use of Nordanner breed only, and should not be used as examples for other breeds: while based in real life, Nordanner contains many simplifications, generalizations and other elements unique to this breed.This sheet only applies to undiluted bay, wild bay and seal bay. Please refer to other guides if looking for diluted variants. It is, however, useful to keep in mind the core differences between these three types of bay, as they carry over to the diluted forms.
Remember that you are allowed to pick the shade of bay for your horse - you don’t need both parents to be dark bay to get a dark bay of your own. However, seal bay and wild bay, being genetically separate, must be bred for: if you receive one of these, it will state so on the genotype.
The types of bay are still visible on diluted horses as well - the placement and size of the darker areas (diluted black points) are usually telling.
Genetically, the breakdown of bays is as follows:
- EE/Ee Ata/AtAt results in seal bay. This means a seal bay is the least dominant form of agouti after black, and seal bays may carry black, but no other types of bay. A horse with AtAt will never produce black foals.
- EE/Ee Aa/AtA/AA results in a standard bay. Being dominant over both seal bay and black, a bay may carry either. A horse with AA may never have black or seal bay offspring.
-EE/Ee A+a/A+At/A+A/A+A+ all result in a wild bay. As this is the most dominant form of agouti, it may carry any one of the other types of agouti. A horse with A+A+ may only ever produce wild bays (and possibly chestnuts).
DOs
Experiment with the variety of shades bay offers - not all bays need to be the same dark red hue
Tone your bay, be it any type, for a more natural and lifelike look
Add non-paint white markings as you please
Have a grey muzzle, black ear tips or rims
DON'Ts
Have drastic color differences that look like pangare or sooty.
Make your horse very light or very saturated.
Turn your horse’s coat greyish. All bays are brown, regardless of shade.
Forget that bays always have black legs of some sort and black hair.
Have any eye color other than brown.
Add white markings characteristic to paint horses.
Sheet complied by ThatDenver & sateenkaarisitruuna .
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Comments: 21
So, I have a burnt buckskin roan geno to design, and I just wondered where I could go to find a couple of reliable shade examples to work from? I looked in the natural foals guide journal and the closest thing I could find was the wild bay link to this sheet
Would it be best to go with something similar to the wild bay shade shown, but more diluted to show the cream (buckskin) plus add the roan? I just don't want to accidentally use an incorrect colour shade by using colours from old designs or something
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They're making rules less strict. Why complain? 
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The "complaints" are confusion/disagreements with the colors shown. I've never seen a wild bay that color and I want to know why that particular shade is considered standard. Other people also seem to have questions about particular shades of bay and wish to make their opinions heard. I am really not sure how that is considered a complaint :Y
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Again, if you disagree make your bays the way you think is right. Which is what I said in my original comment. Its not like they're going to refuse less diluted bays.
Just because a couple people thinks they're "wrong", doesn't make it so? They are making things more loose in terms of rules, so they're accepting more variety in colours. They look fine in terms of dilution on my monitors. You don't have to use these colours if you don't want too, make them whatever way you want/feel is right.
Experiment with the variety of shades bay offers - not all bays need to be the same dark red hue
Wild bay doesn't have to be one standard colour. It is merely an example. I've seen nordanners with blood bay color have the wild gene. Wild really only limits where the black can go, not necessary the colour.
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Your original comment was a passive-aggressive jab at the other commenters, which is ironic considering the fact that you also public complain about the group's design rules. Please do not act as though you have never raised an objection over color guidelines.
Just because the sheet says "you can have other bays" does not mean that members are not allowed to ask for clarification about colors. I had never seen a wild bay that yellow (still haven't actually), so I asked WHY the group had one that yellow. Cloud responded with the group's reasoning and I left it at that. I asked a question and got a response. That was all it took.
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Lmfao that's funny because not once have I said I didn't complain about the group's design rules. However, I did say they are CHANGING it by allowing more variety in shades. They are examples. Why raise an objection over examples. When they are loosening their rules and providing examples of what they now consider correct, just because they don't fit into other's guidelines of correct doesn't mean they are not correct in terms of the group. If you don't like the diluted version of bays, don't do them. Simple as that.
Didn't say you couldn't ask questions, did I? I said don't complain about them loosening rules, which is what we've asked for for over a year now. If you have the ability to still design things the way you want, why complain about them allowing things to be less strict for everyone else. It doesn't make sense.
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No you didn't, but you did ask why people were complaining as though no one should ever be allowed to complain.
Because people have objections and opinions? People asked for clarification or voiced an opinion. You felt the need to make a public jab at that, not me!
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Objections and opinions over examples. Right.
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And sass over questions!
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Wow... Really? All I read her comment to be was "We're getting the looser guidelines, and people are complaining?" If the group wants to allow bays that yellow, then fine, no need to go into all out attack mode over it. >.> She didn't even reply to your initial comment, so there's absolutely NO REASON for you to attack her like this. She was just stating that people shouldn't be complaining about looser rules. I welcome the changes, gives me more freedom to have my future foals look good.
Have a good day, and please just stop this nonsense, it gets you no where.
--EDC
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if there is a comment that is address towards someone, do you think they don't have the right to comment back?
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The problem is, it was a generic comment to the community in general, no one was individually named so one cannot say it was 100% directed at them. Now, if HoT had NAMED Spyt, THEN it would be different, but it was not.
--EDC
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so then everyone who thought this comment: "If you feel its wrong, make your bays the "right" way" could have been geared towards them has the right to comment back with why they asked about the coloration on the picture. Spit, in her reply has that the comments, or "complaints" ABOUT THE PICTURE (making sure to stress this so I don't lose people) was taken as complaining about" loosening the rules, as Hots said. Hots' comment, "Objections and opinions over examples. Right. " then takes this conversation that was slightly aggressive, but still manageable to the playground, ASKING for a smack. Now, I know Spyt's comment about Sass was a little harsh, but it is only reflecting the "sass" in the previous comment. Now, since both you, EvilDemonCat and I have said our 2 comments, I say we all ditch this comment string and go our separate ways.
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Just gonna point this out, Spyt's comment about "sass" was not "harsh", just completely pointless/stupid considering I never had "sass" about people asking questions, if you failed to read that anywhere in this comment string.
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Agreed, I just want to point out that it honestly never would have exploded if Spyt hadn't started in on HoTs and just let the first comment be. I was honestly like :eyeroll: when I saw someone objecting and pointing their opinion to it.
--EDC
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Both the standard and wild bay look super diluted?
This is an actual standard bay www.theequinest.com/images/bay…
and wild bay www.whitehorseproductions.com/…
They're both more red based than the yellow on here. These examples look very buckskin-ish
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The standard bay looks like a buckskin, I honestly thought it was a buckskin before I used my eyeballs and read rofl
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I'm not sure if its just my monitor, but some of the colors seem off. The standard bay and wild bays (especially wild bay) both appear to have a rather yellow-base coat. They look more like burnt buckskin than a true bay.
I'm also confused by the wild bay's dark points. I was told that the dark points could not fade out, they had to be solid. Has that been changed?
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These guys were checked against 4 different monitors; however our CV did have to change from Chrome to another browser--they're fine on my Chrome and Chrome on another computer in the same house, but not hers. We're fancy apparently 
Using a soft brush is always okay and minor gradienting is as well, but the whole black point needs to actually be black. So a gradient should start from the top of the point, for example. And, of course, gradients which veer into odd colors will be declined. As you'll notice (especially on the wild bay), the actual points on our bays are black, but there is a slight gradient/fade from use of the soft brush. I prefer to do my dark points with a soft brush also ^^ So long as your actual point is the correct color, you should be just fine.
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What's the range of acceptable shades of bay? I had a foal declined because it was too dark despite the fact that undiluted bays can range from a dark buckskin to almost solid black in appearance. Like this mare is genetically bay (Stormswept Cricket; AAt) and this guy is a visual bay, but I was told those were too dark to be acceptable.
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The darker you go with bay the more careful you need to be with toning so it doesn't come across sooty. Otherwise very dark bays are entirely acceptable.
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