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darthhell — Ricochet
Published: 2012-07-23 18:37:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 3689; Favourites: 45; Downloads: 176
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What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?After thinking about this for a bit I'm thinking the Empire wins this one. Only on the basis that Vader or the Emperor are aboard the Death Star. A simple crushing with the force I don't think the Borg could adapt to. Barring Vader and the Emperor, the Borg might have this one. At least the original vision of the Borg, the mysterious terrifying soulless juggernaut.
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That's true. Then again Talon vs anything is enjoyable
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1 drone aboard the deathstar and it's all over though
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Eh I don't know. If that drone doesn't encounter Vader perhaps. But if so.... CRUSH
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One drone has materials to convert maybe one startrooper, if it manages to survive initial contact.
After that it would need extra materials from the vaporized cube because I'm 100% sure that there's no borg spare part lying about on the death star.
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Ever heard of assimilation? The stuff to make a default drone is build inside the assimilated body by the nanoprobes. So my comment still stands
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From Wikipedia:
The method of assimilating individual life-forms into the collective has been represented differently over time, only consistent in that infant and fetal humanoids have been grown in an accelerated state and surgically receive implants connected directly into the brain, as well as ocular devices, tool-enhanced limbs, armor, and other prosthetics. In Star Trek: First Contact, the method of adult assimilation is depicted with the more efficient injection of nanoprobes-(nanites)-into the individual's bloodstream through a pair of tubules that spring forth from the drone's hand. Assimilation by nanoprobe is depicted on-screen as being a fast-acting process, with the victim's skin pigmentation turning gray with visible dark tracks forming within moments of contact. The individual is then taken away for complete assimilation by drones; the individual has all traces of individuality removed and implants are attached to the new drone so it can become an integrated part of the collective. This method of assimilation is also shown to be much more surgical in nature; in "The Best of Both Worlds" the Borg essentially overlay the body with cybernetics, while in First Contact, a captured crew member is shown to have a forearm and an eye physically removed and replaced with cybernetic implants.
Whether or not they use nanoprobes on initial contact, complete assimilation needs several kilos of hardware to be implanted into the victim. No single drone (or even collection of drones) is capable of assimilating more than a very few enemy soldiers without extra supplies from the (vaporized) cube - against a death star that has a fighting crew of over 600.000 soldiers (plus elites plus dark jedi plus bounty hunters plus diverse)
There is an extremely strong mismatch in terms of forces with advantage to the death star and the star wars universe has already shown that it is MUCH more inventive about tactics than the standardized star trek humans.
(The only ones more inventive are the stargate SG1. No matter the opponent, they'll get a nuke on board - count on it.)
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When the bodyparts are removed/replaced the person itself is already a drone on the inside.
Very nice wiki copy/paste but it doe not have all the Voyager info on the Borg (which is far more indepth). The nanoprobes reproduce, thus a single borg drone has an unlimited supply of them. People that are being assimilated are also 'mind controlled' in that their individuallity is removed to take away any form of resistance. They may not be fully equipped drones, they are still drones nonetheless. They may miss the holographic eyepiece or the armor plating, that doens't mean they can't assimilate any more people.
Plus a laser beam has 0 chance of even scraping the hull of a Borg ship. Even the Enterprise's weakest hull component (the deflector dish) is laser proof. In the thousands of years the Borg have existed, you can bet there has already been atleast 1 encounter between Borg and a laser beam. Yh a huge ball of steel surely is very inventive or very strategic. It's not even realistic to have ships the size's of star wars. That's why they call star wars science fantasy and star trek science fiction.
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Two problems with what you said:
1) There are no infinite resources and biological bodies do not easily yield the resources to create large quantities of nanobots
2) Outside of games like "magic: the gathering" there is no such thing as an absolute immunity. You can finesse a shield by adjusting your frequencies (the enterprise way) or you can overwhelm and sweep the shield and all it shields away (the death star way). Firing the death star laser on a borg cube is like dropping a nuke on a medieval castle - by comparison, the power of the torpedoes the enterprise fires was about on the level of arbalest bolts, and even the enterprise scored more than a few hits on the borg.
Plus, the Borg need to take one hit to get raw data to calibrate their shields by... and one hit is all it takes.
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About the nanoprobes:
Nanoprobes are microscopic machines that inhabit a Borg's body, bloodstream, and many cybernetic implants. The probes perform the function of maintaining the Borg cybernetic systems, as well as repairing damage to the organic parts of a Borg. They generate new technology inside a Borg when needed as well as protecting them from many forms of disease and virus. Borg nanoprobes, each about the size of a human red blood cell, travel through the victim's bloodstream and latch on to individual cells. The nanoprobes rewrite the cellular DNA, altering the victim's biochemistry, and eventually form larger, more complicated structures and networks within the body such as electrical pathways, processing and data storage nodes, and ultimately prosthetic devices that spring forth from the skin.
Though used by the Borg to exert control over another being, reprogrammed nanoprobes were used by the crew of the starship Voyager in many instances as medical aids. In one instance, the probes were used to revive crewman Neelix 18 hours, 49 minutes and 13 seconds after death by repairing his body, and are used to treat various visitors' ailments.
The Borg will not try to immediately assimilate any being that it comes to contact with; in fact, Borg drones tend to completely ignore beings that are identified as too weak to be a threat and too inferior to be worth assimilating.
When they see the deathstar for the first time (assuming the Borg did no encounter any other rebel- or imperialship at all), they scan it and decide if it's worth the trouble or not. If they did encounter any other ships, then they have all knowledge they need to stay safe and adapt to whatever the deathstar can throw at them, big laser or not. Since the deathstar is a battlestation it will go to no lengths to hide it's power, thus the Borg will know rightaway what they are dealing with. If the deathstar has the capability to harm the Borg, it becomes a target for destruction, if it has relevant technology (doubtful!) it will be assimilated. Also as has been seen in Star Trek often enough, when a Borg ship is about to be destroyed a number of drones are transported onto the enemy ship to take over. Wether the deathstar kills the cube or not, it has no chance to survive the encounter. A laser is a concentrated linear beam of radiation (lightwaves) and all you need is a strong hullarmor for protection (fact). A phaser beam (phased energy) passes through most forms of matter and damages molecules as it passes through them. It takes strong energy shielding as protection. A disruptor (or desintegrator) used by most Star Trek races is a more violent form of phased energy, it tears molecules appart as it passes through them. Borg use disruptors as weapons, good luck being on the deathstar when they open fire upon it.
Any Star Trek vs Star Wars discussions are bound to end swiftly since they are 2 completely different genres. Science Fiction vs Science Fantasy. Star Wars has diffirent 'laws' than Star Trek and one cannot exist in the other's universe. Hyperspeed is betweween 1 and 1,5 times lightspeed, that enables galactic travel appearently (fantasy). Warp 1 equals lightspeed and still that takes atleast days or weeks to travel to any close starsystem (fact). Star Trek technology is based on facts, thus it's fiction. Star Wars has no basis in facts, it's completely made up thus it's fantasy.
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about nanoprobes: True enough, but they need resources (silicons, metal ions) to do that that can't be taken from within the human body without killing the human. At best, the new drone will need to drink a liter or two of concentrated mineral goo.
about technology: Most Star Wars technology is based on the technology of the Rakatan Infinite Empire who used force-powered technology the likes of which the Borg will never have encountered (they are from the wrong kind of universe for that).
I bet the star forge could assimilate the Borg lol 
about laser/shielding: The death star cannot be an actual laser - if it was merely that, it would never be able to destroy a planet as famously shown in the film.
Either way, with the power behind it you would need hullarmor a couple dozen kilometers thick to have any chance of blocking it. If you truly want more technobabble involving that kind of thing, read the "Honor Harrington" books. The auther loves giving his technology lots of background, including which kind of hull armor and armor thickness would be how effective against laser-like weapons.
btw about comparative speeds: The star wars galaxy is about 120,000 light years big (according to wikipedia) and can be crossed in a matter of days using hyperdrive...
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I wonder if you are right , is the force strong enough to deal with a hive mind .. Individual borgs would not be a problem , but the collective ??
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Well I think the mind equation is irrelevant to a point. Just the force dealing with the physical properties I think is where it has them. If the attempt at mind control or influence was tried I don't think that would work but to just crush the cube or their individual bodies simultaneously, I think the way the force is described, it should be able to do that.
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If you've played "the force unleashed" you actually get to skoot a star destroyer through space, and you're only playing the apprentice.
Yeah, the star destroyer is only 1.6km long and 1km wide, but this does illustrate just what a strong enough jedi/sith can do - and both Darth Vader and the Emporer are nothing if not true masters at using the force.
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I wonder if there's a floating triangle in space, too...
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Just imagine if they collided together. No one would be powerful to stop that!
Unless, you know, you're Darth Talon...
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Hell yes. Darth Talon is the true unstoppable force
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The Cube. That was an awsome movie too. I build a model of that room many years ago and have never used it in any render. I should see if I can find where I put that.
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Nice job realy nice. I think the empire has this one! THe borg are known for adptability...but...one shot of a planet destroying beam will blow the cube apart. The borg require a least one shot for them to adpat (first shot from the enterpise damaged the cube)...and well with the death star it only takes one shot!
<---- Trekie as well as Star wars fan
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Thank you
Me too, I'm a fan of both. So I looked at it completely objectively, plus I'm a huge fan of the borg. And even if the borg could adapt to the cannon laser I don't think their cube could supply the power to reflect the power of the cannon output. I just think in the end the borg can't win this one.
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I have an answer for your question.
The unstoppable force wins. For an object to truly be immovable, it would have to have infinite mass. There's no such thing as infinite mass. Therefore, because the unstoppable force has no limit, it will win.
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But in the real physical universe, it is unlikely that a truly unstoppable force exists as well
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My opinion:
1) The cube: It will get evaporated on the first shot from the death star. It's too big and slow to dodge and the borg can calibrate all they want but even the most well-calibrated shields are gonna be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of power output the death star has on its' big cannon.
A much more interesting question would be what would happen if there was mass equality, i.e. an entire swarm of cubes vs. the death star. Could they overwhelm the death star (which is all generators, shields and guns) before it fries them all?
About the Death Star One exploit: the borg don't know about it but even if they did they don't have appropriate resources (read: fighters or super-high-end guided missiles) to take advantage of it.
2) The ground troops: The borg can undoubtedly get a couple units on board the death star before they get blasted and even adjust to the regular storm troopers' weapons, rendering them useless. Phasers or Lasers - the shots look identical. They might assimilate a couple storm troopers, but they'll run out of resources soon without a cube to back them up. Still, they cannot stand up to
a) Commando troops utilising a wide variety of weapons even including blades and tank-buster grenades (think republic commando - those guys are still around somewhere)
b) Any mercenary troops that are quite possibly used to taking out Jedi and will make short work of clumsy borg units (think "Atton Rand" and consorts). These guys will very quickly learn that EMP grenades or trandoshan ACP guns will take a borg drone out quickly.
c) Both versions of the Death Star have Darth Vader on them. Shielding against blasters is one thing, but the lightsaber is a mite bit harder to block. Plus, in a pinch he can crush their skulls using the force.
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Yeah that's pretty much the way I envisioned it too. It would seem that the amount of power coming from the main cannon could not be shielded against unless the power output of the shields was greater, and the cube just isn't big enough to supply that kind of power. And to top it off they can't adapt to a physical attack like the force crushing their bodies.
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"We are the Borg, your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own, your species will adapt to service us."
BOOM
Planet sundering weapon vaporises cube; maybe the next cube or the one after that will have adapted shielding capable of withstanding it
As the force would be beyond their ken, well Borg would be as disadvantaged as they would versus a Q. Unless of course they managed to assimilate a force capable person, neither Jedi nor Sith are beyond reach.
Cool image, the only thing I'd say by way of critique are the two galaxies, they just don't look like a natural part of the star-field but being small secondary objects this doesn't detract from the main focus, the menacing cube.
"At least the original vision of the Borg, the mysterious terrifying soulless juggernaut."
With you 100% there. Would they have become somewhat neutered, somewhat all too easily rolled over at a point when the producers felt they had to out Borg the Borg in a certain series that all too often beggared belief for a ship stranded 70k light-years away sans all Federation repair and refit?
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Thank you
Yeah I never watched Voyager much, I think I caught a few episodes but from what I've heard they turned the borg into a joke. But if the borg could manage to assimilate a force user, then I would say game over for everyone else.
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They quickly became merely Janeway's puncbag, a faux terrifying foe that never really presented a threat any more. Rot started with the Borg not being scary enough, oh no we need scarier, hey what luck says the SFX Dept as we just happen to have a bland abuse of CGI ready to go to hand the Borg's asses to em in spades. Long story short, the Borg's neutering culminated in Voyager's execrable finale where our eponymous captain hoofs out the precious Prime Directive she spent several seasons beating over the heads of her hapless crew, to do something that should be impossible; ask a hobo to piss in your eye, would be more pleasant than watching that dreck.
What they did to the Borg I imagine to be similar to Lucas and Spielberg did to Indy in SouthPark.
You know, I don't think I like Voyager very much.
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The funny thing is, I caught 2 or 3 episodes of Voyager during the whole run and they all involved borg. The first one was when they recruited 7 of 9 which while she herself was nice to look at, conceptually was completely ridiculous. And then to make her part of the crew, sure why the hell not we've already jumped the assimilated shark so to speak. And then I saw part of an episode that showed an entire borg city which just didn't seem very borglike from the initial impression one gets from the borg in 'Q Who'. I didn't even watch the whole episode because it looked so bad.
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I think that was some group of ex-Borg from a crashed cube and not a Borg city per se, or else that horrendous invention of Unimatrix-Zero where the strong willed retained their individuality in some nonsense shared dreamworld.
Best to just assume the Voyager Borg episodes never happened and try not to be as bitter about em as I seem to be
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Agreed 
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haha.. darth vader is so dead.. if the (dark) force would be part of the universe then the borg would have assembled jedi's and sith's a long time ago.. so they would have assembled the force too.. which means their not only technologically advanced but also mentally way more advanced.. just imagine the power they could have if borg are able to use the force.. every single drone is sith and jedi all in one.. its the begging of a new age.. we are BORG..!!!
yeah.. i love borg.. can you tell ?!?
really awesome cube too.. great job as always, babes...
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Thank you Saph
Force using Borg, that would be an unstoppable combination. D'oh! That would suck for anyone who wanted to offer resistance 
And now I just had an epiphany, I think I want to do a borg sith combo, that would be awsome. 'Darth Pluribus'. And then maybe a steampunk borg cube. I'll call it, 'The Early Years'
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WE ARE BORG..!!!
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Yes their best option would be to attack a Jedi. Jedi don't use the force to attack an opponent, they might use it to defend themselves but unless you're willing to use it to kill eventually the Jedi would probably succumb. And then the borg have the force with which they could attack the stronger sith. UNLESS 
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hahaha.. well lucas f*cked that up for you too.. im not really sure in what movie that is.. i guess its in the first one (fourth they made).. the big jedi master qui gon takes blood from young anakin and takes a measurement of euhm.. some substances that is in the blood which caries the forced in it too.. the more of that substance the more powerful the force is in that person.. so if its in the blood we can assimilate it.. its a chemical substance so we can even reproduce it with the right technology.. so its just a matter of time that we borg can synthesize it.. the knowhow on how to use the force is not really a problem either.. we borg can assimilate knowhow, thats a basic principal of what do and how we operate.. so no problem there either.. no matter with what excuse you come up with, borg will prevail..!!! btw, did i say i love borg..!!!
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Yeah, before Lucas came up with that I would have had a good argument. Damn Lucas!
But I can definitely agree, the Borg are badass!
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haha.. just imagine what would happen if we put aliens to the mix too.. then you end up with an alien with borg technology and able to use the force.. that would the end of everything... i so want that as my next pet..!!!
btw, technically that alien is borg too.. just saying..!!!
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Ahhhh if you mean the aliens from the movie alien, that would be awsome. Yeah we're talking truly unstoppable force right there 
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I have often wondered about a battle between the Federation and the Empire, with the Empire always coming out on top. But this fight is a whole new card game. Cube against Death Star I think the latter has the advantage. But with the Borg beaming technology I think it would depend on how close they need to get in order to beam drones on, and then how fast it takes them to begin assimilating storm troopers. Even with the Emperor and Vader on board I think they could eventually be overwhelmed. They would also be prime assimilation targets. Could the force keep them from being beamed off the station?
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I think the force would keep the borg from even getting close to Vader or the Emperor. I think once either one of them realized what was going on they would simply crush the borg, and probably do it to all of them at once. I could just see the individual bodies of the borg imploding simultaneously as they approach either Vader or the Emperor. Now if they targeted Vader or the Emperor and beamed them aboard their cube I still think either of them would quickly crush the borg and be done with it, no fighting or enjoying the kill, just be swift about it because of the looming threat.
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I had to look it up just now. I didn't realize Vader had the power to crush star destroyers. He never showed that level of ability in the original movies. And I must hang my head in shame when I say I have never read any of the books.
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Truth be told, I've never read any of the books either
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no idea who would win that fight or the following battles and wars.
i always found the Borg to be much better organized than the Empire which is only build on power and repression,...so from that point of view on a long term I would say the Borg would make it.
But who am I?
What I can say is that the greenlish glowing cube looks damn f****** cool! A Great effect that is!
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Thank you
You are right about that, the borg are very organized. Yes I think Borg vs Empire, Borg takes it. BUT Borg vs the force, the force would probably take it. Mainly because the Force is fantasy based and the Borg, while still science fiction have a possibility of reality to them. And reality with all its limits can never stand up to unlimited fantasy.
But in truth, this image was just an excuse to render the cube, I made this model over a year ago and have only used it once. I was originally going to set the cube against Kubricks Discovery from 2001, but the discovery just looked like another dot in the starfield.
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So whoever whins,...
It was worth the render
The model is pretty cool.
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