HOME | DD
Lady-Suchiko — Tracing is Not Referencing (Tracing FAQ)
Published: 2015-01-18 22:39:46 +0000 UTC; Views: 9016; Favourites: 171; Downloads: 0
Redirect to original
Description
body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox { background-image:url(https://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/o/2011/114/a/5/206225650_213140_rosetbg.png); background-repeat:repeat-x; background-position:top left; border:0px #d55d5c solid; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; color:#45312b; background-color:#fdd7cf; font-family:'Droid Sans',arial,serif; font-size:9pt; text-align:center; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .list { display:none; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .list .a { display:none; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox h2 { border-color:#dadada; background-color:transparent!important; padding-top:226px; text-align:right; color:#45312b; font-family:'Dancing Script',arial,serif; font-size:38px; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .journaltop { background-color:transparent!important; text-align:right; background-image:url(https://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/o/2011/114/e/6/206225650_213141_roset.png); background-position:topleft; background-repeat:no-repeat; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; color:#d55d5c; margin-right:20px; padding-bottom:20px; height:280px; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbottom { background-color:transparent!important; font-weight:900!important; color:#fdd7cf!important; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; text-align:right; padding-right:28px; padding-bottom:20px; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbottom a { background-image:url(https://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/o/2011/114/e/9/206225650_213142_gmbuttoncomment.gif); padding:7px 24px 7px 24px; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; text-shadow:1px 1px 0px #ba4957; font-weight:bold; background-position:50% 0px; background-repeat:no-repeat; width:120px; height:27px; color:#fee6e1!important; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbottom a:active { text-decoration:none !important; background-position:50% 0px; font-weight:600; text-shadow:1px 1px 0px #ba4957; padding:7px 24px 7px 24px; color:#fee6e1; width:120px; height:27px; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbottom a:hover { padding:7px 24px 7px 24px; text-shadow:1px 1px 0px #fee6e1; background-position:50% -54px; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; width:120px; height:27px; font-weight:bold; text-decoration:none!important; color:#b74858!important; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbottom a:visited { padding:7px 24px 7px 24px; text-shadow:1px 1px 0px #ba4957; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; width:120px; height:27px; background-position:50% 0px; font-weight:bold; color:#fee6e1; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .journaltop img { display:none !important; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .boxtop { padding:0 !important; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .journaltext { font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; color:#45312b; text-align:left; text-decoration:none; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .journaltext a { color:#45312b; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; text-decoration:underline!important; letter-spacing:0px; } body div#devskin11849284 .journalbox .journaltext a:hover { font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; color:#d43433; text-decoration:none!important; letter-spacing:0px; } body div#devskin11849284 .title { font-size:16pt; font-family:'Dancing Script',arial,serif; } body div#devskin11849284 i { color:#45312b; text-decoration:none; letter-spacing:0px; } body div#devskin11849284 b { color:#45312b; font-weight:8pt; } body div#devskin11849284 .maincontentleft { float:left; margin:13px 20px 10px 0; font-weight:600; background-color:#f5bfb8; color:#d55d5c; font-weight:8pt; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; width:190px; padding:10px; } body div#devskin11849284 .maincontentright { padding:10px; margin:auto; margin-left:210px; background-color:#f5bfb8; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; padding-right:50px; } body div#devskin11849284 .boxed { background-color:#f8ccc7; padding:20px; padding-top:0px; padding-bottom:0px; width:100%; } body div#devskin11849284 .main { margin-top:0px; padding:10px; min-width:500px; } body div#devskin11849284 .light { margin-left:-40px; list-style-type:none; background-color:#f2b5af; padding:10px; } body div#devskin11849284 .dark { margin-left:-40px; list-style-type:none; background-color:#efaba6; padding:10px; } body div#devskin11849284 .light a:link { color:#45312b; } body div#devskin11849284 .light a:hover { color:#d43433!important; } body div#devskin11849284 .light a:visited { color:#45312b; } body div#devskin11849284 .dark a:link { color:#45312b; } body div#devskin11849284 .dark a:hover { color:#d43433!important; } body div#devskin11849284 .dark a:visited { color:#45312b; } body div#devskin11849284 .stamps { text-align:center; background-color:#d1b995; background-repeat:no-repeat; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; padding:10px; padding-top:20px; } body div#devskin11849284 .stamps .title { background-color:#92ae57; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; border-radius:8px; -moz-border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius:8px; padding:10px; font-family:verdana; font-size:8pt; color:#fff; } body div#devskin11849284 .divide { background-color:#bcbf86; font-size:2pt; } body div#devskin11849284 .bullet { list-style-type:none; }
Stamps
I feel like this needs to be explained, since with the recent string of tracing drama around some particular people I've notice a lot of confusion going on. So I'll try to explain for people who may be confused on the subject. If anyone has a topic that they think I should add or discuss, just let me know. If you want to share this journal, then go ahead. No need to ask!
Referencing and Tracing
Tracing and referencing are NOT the same thing.
Here's the distinction most experienced artists would make on the two subjects.Referencing = Having some pictures nearby to show you how things are done. They're not under your drawing, they're all around so you can see and remind yourself of the proper way to draw something. You're using them as tools to draw your own thing. References are there to keep you on track, but you're doing your own work.Tracing = You've taken a picture (or more. You can trace from several pictures on one piece) and put it underneath your own picture so you can draw over the exact lines that are already present.
It doesn't matter "how much" is traced. If they traced, they traced.
I constantly see people going "But it's only a hand/eye/upper body!" It doesn't matter. If I stole $5 from you, I still stole. Sure I could take your whole wallet, but just because I only took a bit doesn't mean anything.
When people say it's okay to reference, they are NOT saying it's okay to trace.
Since referencing and tracing are not the same thing, then approving of refs doesn't mean approving tracing.
Referencing is not only okay, it's GOOD!
People SHOULD take references! Every master artist in history used references! You're not required to know how to draw absolutely everything straight from memory. Looking at things and learning how to draw them right is an important part of being an artist and is in no way wrong. If anyone tells you so, they are not worth listening to.
But what about...
But tracing can be helpful!
It can, but it is a slippery slope. Tracing can help, but it doesn't help as much as learning to do things on your own. Your progress will be slow and frustrating, but that is your choice. People who trace to learn do exist, but you should always remember that what you traced is not YOUR art and should not be posted for others to see. If you are letting people assume it's yours, you are stealing. Even if you don't come right out and say it.
But they only traced a little part!
Same as above. It doesn't matter how much they traced. The person who drew the original took time and effort to learn how to put those lines together, even if it's just an eye. All of their knowledge went into drawing that eye, and for someone else to just trace over it for their own use is wrong. Period.
But the trace isn't a perfect match!
Tracers might be wrong, but that doesn't mean they're stupid. Don't you think if I wanted to trace that I would change a few things here and there? Move some stuff around? Make it look like... I dunno... I DIDN'T TRACE IT? Of course I would! You would, too! A clever tracer is still a tracer.
But sometimes lines just match up!
No they don't. A curve here or there, yeah. Some general shape like a triangle or a circle or something, sure. But not a facial structure. Not a whole arm or hand. People who actually know how to draw can't even make exact copies of their OWN art, let alone some random person. Humans aren't photocopiers by nature. We can barely get our own stuff together. So no, the lines of the two drawings are not a "coincidence". If you think so, then try drawing one of your pictures again line for line and overlay them so they are a perfect match without tracing.
But this person is so nice!
Being charming is not an excuse for being a thief. Putting lots of emojis and hearts and cute things in your comments does not mean that you are 'nice'. It just means that you know how to manipulate people. Nice people don't steal from others.
But they admitted it later!
That's great! But it doesn't mean that history is erased. Even if they admitted it after being called out, it only means that they were sick of the pressure, not that they had a change of heart. So no, they did not do some noble thing.
But bashing them hurts their feelings!
They already hurt someone's feelings when they stole their hard work. They brought it on themselves. No, they should not be threatened with bodily harm or anything like that, but people are going to be mad at them and they deserve that. If there are no consequences for stealing, then that's the same as saying it's okay to do.
But why call them out over it? Why not just keep quiet?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~ Edmund BurkeBasically, if we are going to be a community of people and artists, we have to look out for what is right because no one else will. Not calling attention to and trying to stop bad things only allows those bad things to prosper.CALLING ATTENTION TO A THIEF IS NOT HARASSMENT.
But they did a speedpaint from the beginning!
Speedpaints can be as easily manipulated as any other art. It takes literally no time for someone to cut out the part where they drew over another image and renamed the layers. Because everything is zooming by so fast, you wouldn't even notice it. That's basic video editing, and even people who don't trace often cut out stalls in the video or parts they don't feel are necessary. So a speedpaint is not proof.
Why being a White Knight makes you part of the problem
You're defending a thief
It's pretty self explanatory why this is not a good hing to do. You claim to be "doing good" by sticking by this person, but you're just advocating theft. Your heart is in the right place, but your thoughts and actions are not.
You're disregarding the feelings of the real victim
So much crying goes on about people making the tracer feel bad, but what about the person who had their hard work stolen? How come they aren't the ones being comforted and looked after? By defending a tracer, you are basically telling the person who did the REAL work that they don't matter. That this person was in the right to take their art and use it for their own gain. That they deserve to have their work stolen.
You're encouraging theft
Other people are going to see how these tracers get defended and be reassured that if they get caught, someone is going to be there for them. This makes people who wouldn't have started tracing feel more confident to start.
You're making yourself look like a sheep
You're letting someone manipulate you. You're letting them make you look like a damn fool. These people know that you've got a heart and want to defend someone "in need", so they will act as innocent and helpless as possible to trigger your protective instincts. They've got you going around yelling and screaming on their behalf, while they sit there hiding behind you knowing full well that they are in the wrong. Being a white knight is a misuse of your good intentions.
You think you're playing "Devil's Advocate" but you're not
Even devil's advocates have to know that when people on the other side have indisputable evidence, the only thing they should do is say "I can't argue with that. You're right." A devil's advocate who ignores all evidence and continues to fight even when they are bested is not a "devil's advocate", they are just a jackass.The hallmark of a mature person is knowing when to say you are wrong.
Related content
Comments: 96
I Disagree; Tracing is helpful for those who don't have the time, patience, to learn how to draw "legitimately"; Besides; When People have to draw Pictures for a Strict Deadline to draw & publish; DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY HAVE THE TIME TO DO ALL THAT; NO; THEY DON'T HAVE THE ****ING TIME TO DO THAT; THEY NEED TO TRACE IN ORDER TO MEET THEIR DEADLINE. . .
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You really did not have to come and be so unnecessarily hostile on a 4 year old journal post. Calm down.
👍: 2 ⏩: 1
This is so true. On another website called scratch, I noticed that one of my online friends was having her art stolen constantly by one user, who was not only stealing her hard work, but was also calling her horrible things and calling her the thief, as well as telling other users lies about her. What surprised me is that a TON of people stood by the thief, and the people who tried to do something, maybe even kindly telling the thief, that they would love to see their own art, and that scratch doesn't allow using others art without credit, got ban. The thief didn't get ban, and kept on stealing. The moderators did nothing to stop this. And guess what? The thief got ban for "starting drama".
Not a tracing related story, but either way tracing is stealing anyways.
When I was about eight years old, I would use thin printer paper to trace over manga books. I practiced until I got every line smooth. Slowly, I started to realize that it was time to start trying to draw on my own. Instead of tracing I started referencing, and attempting to observe details in the image, and replicate them on my paper. After that, I started working from my imagination, and without tracing for the sake of learning, I wouldn't have understood things like anatomy as much, and the curves of the human body.
Some people don't see that tracing for learning, without posting it online, is NOT the same as tracing another artists work and claiming it as your own.
Thank you for showing people this!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I really love this journal!
Thank you for making it ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I am so glad that I found this!l I keep saying that Tracing is so much different than Refs 100% if I use someone else reference poses for example, I credit them or show proof! Some one told me that using Reference is cheating only use your imagination! Which is BS and weird! Heck I use my own Refs like my own 3d models from Maya or Blender and use them as refs, put them on the side to look at while I draw a brand new Canvas, not over it. Because I am still learning lighting still, it's really hard to think of imaginary lighting from your own head! and some times I use Design doll and once I create my own pose I take a screen shot once I am finish from my own and use it as my own reference same thing. I know I am not the only one that does this though. and After that I draw it in own style on another canvas, but I am still finding mines XD
I know this is a TL;DR so my apologies if this was
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Finally someone who understands that tracing and referencing are not the same thing!
I like your description. It explains pretty much everything what needs to be said about this.
Recently I've come across someone who I think that he is kind of....stealing arts too.
This user, Koolguy17 traces arts from official and from other peoples drawings, but he keeps saying in his description, that he used them as reference. I tried to be nice and give him couple tips not to trace all the time. But then he reported all of my comments for no reason.
Then I send him a message with my Journal asking him why he is doing this stuff?
Message to KooIguy17Since it's pointless to write another comment on your profile, I write my message to you in this journal.
First of all. Why are you keep hiding my comments from your profile? Do you have something against me?
I'm not sure what I've done wrong to you, but it's very rude and disrespectful to hide peoples comments.
And you seem not in willing of to talk with me at all.
First this:
Then that:
Koolguy17 I don't know why you're doing this but you should stop censoring peoples comments. You make the community look bad and yourself too...if you hate talking with people, then you shouldn't be in a community like on DeviantART...just saying.
I hope you understand this.
In this Journal, he replied, but he claims that he doesn't have no time for DA, but this isn't really true.
He still goes online everyday and post some comments to other people.
I'm not so sure what to do, but I feel this guy needs to be stopped, or?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If you're really sure about them then there's not much to do but report the drawings and/or try to let the original artists know so that they can file a complaint. Unfortunately not everyone can be talked to nicely in cases like that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah sadly, but it's over now. His account received many warnings from the DAstaff and took down most of his arts.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
this is true
HOWEVER
As someone who has done photorealistic sketches from life if two people draw the same thing it can look very similar, have the same curves and angles. If two people draw similar faces in the same angle (like the ever popular 3/4 front facing angle).. it's going to look similar. Some parts can even look traced. Especially if it's not stylized and instead realistic.
That being said it's usually pretty easy to tell if someone traces by looking at their art quality lol
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Tracing is a good training tool if used correctly, shoot, one of the stock photo books I got even suggested using it to help copy poses.
Of course the reference they showed turned a picture of a woman in a crouching position into a male gargoyle in the same pose, so it was only about tracing the pose, not a whole art style.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I agree, it can be a help if you're focusing on the learning aspect and not just using it as a shortcut while claiming it's 100% your own. From what it sounds like, your book used tracing the original photo as a reference anyway, as I'm guessing many changes and adjustments had to be made to make a human woman into a male gargoyle! The tracing was a starting point, and then the original piece was made, so it's still just a reference really. And if the original photo is your own, then forgettaboutit, do whatever you want!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Oh, the book in question was the 'Colossal Collection of Action Poses' by Impact Books.
www.amazon.com/Comic-Fantasy-A…
I was slightly mistaken. It wasn't turning a female woman into a male gargoyle, but into a cloaked male demon monster. I couldn't remember correctly until I just refound my copy of the book.
It's still a considerable difference from the source to the final drawing though, seeing it was just a pic of a woman dressed in a sports bra and shorts.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Aaah, I knew it ~
But yeah, I can tell you from experience that life without references, trying to do everything 100% from imagination, is just hell on earth lol. They're an import part of art! But if we borrow from someone else the least we can do is let people know where we got it from. And of course, not flat out steal their stuff line for line.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Reference helps leads to drawing from imagination. If you repeatedly draw from reference, eventually your mind with get that technique embossed into your head.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
So, would drawing something exactly like you see it on a picture, without placing it under your drawing, count as tracing or a reference or something completely different?
Like just holding it next to your drawing and trying to create the same.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That's called a redraw, and unless the original artist says you can do so, it's looked down on if uploaded to the public.
A lot of artists have likely redrawn something as a way of practicing perspective, anatomy, etc, but keep it to themselves.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Now if only they would listen to logic, reason, and plain facts
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
BUT BASHING THEM HURTS THEIR FEELINGS
i wouldnt give a fuck if you stealing my work
Run my fade
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
I absolutely love this journal. It explains so much more people should read it <3
I have a question though. What of the artists that use the grid method for referencing - drawing a grid on the photograph they wish to use as reference, then draw and empty grid on a clean sheet of paper, and then just draw the image square by square? If you make a very fine grid, you can, with a lot of work of course, make an almost perfect match to the photo you're using as reference. Plus, it also serves well as means for drawing big drawings based or very small reference images. The oponions od this are divided and I would like to hear your opinion on it (ant other people's as well!).
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Not OP, but even a child can do this and make a decent drawing. There's not much skill involved and I don't condone selling art made like this. It's horrible for practice, too - there's no way you can learn composition or anatomy for that. So it's pretty much useless.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Great journal! Made me reassure I know what these terms mean <_<;;
I personally think tracing is fine if not posted owo
Typo: at the "You're defending a thief", you wrote "is not a good hing to do" , should be "thing", isn't it?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
This is super awesome! I really appreciate this guide!
I have a question though. I'm not very good at sketching in the actual digital art application, so I will often sketch what I want on a piece of paper, take a picture of my sketch and then trace it digitally before coloring it. Is this the bad kind of tracing?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If I understand right you're replacing the first digitally drawn sketch with a traditional one. That's not bad, you only chose a form of drawing that suits you more. There are people who draw their sketches with traditional tools and alter them digitally or draw the entire piece traditionally and polish it up digitally at the end.
And tracing your own sketch is called lineart, so no worries.
The bad kind of tracing means making a lineart of another actual finished (or even unfinished) artwork or photography from another artist.
Edit: If you have a reference image, make you're own sketch/sketches and take the lineart from there. If you upload them, don't forget to link your resources.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
lol, being apart of the sonic fandom, this is something that happens quite often, i had my trace routes, but i eventually learned to draw on my own too, but originally, used tracing to show the characters i couldnt draw digitally, which is probably odd for alot of people, i drew alot before i got into the sonic fandom, or any other fandom.
but i do have to say, while tracing is still pretty shitty, its often fun to do in the meanwhile with proper permission from the original artist and credit given.
i usually do one once in a while for a (huge) challenge in a while tho. not sure if its bad or not.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I... I... want to cry so much! Thank you for creating this journal. I thought no one understand me
Of course, I'm gonna share it!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Woow thank you for creating this journal!!
I used to tracing when i was a kid for fun. But, the i learn drawing by myself. It's not that improving when tracing.
How about if we tracing photo of human doll, but the picture is taken by ourself? For guidline when drawing difficult pose / angle. Is that still ok?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It's perfectly fine if it's your photo! Tracing can be good practice when used correctly.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
GOD BLESS THIS JOURNAL~ THIS IS SO ACCURATE~ THANK YOU~
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I love this so much! Thank you for making this, everything you wrote is so perfect and all the metaphors and quotes really got to me 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You're super welcome! Glad to be of service
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You're very welcome ~
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Your definitions of the topic are absolutely accurate! Tracing is something no one should do, no matter how dire the circumstances. Its practically plagiarism :c
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
I love you for this <3
I use to trace when I was about 7-8 ish but my mom was always against it and told me I could do better and be far more creative without tracing.
No one really learns from it.
It might get you a few 'likes or faves' but it won't give you the satisfaction of creating something new and pride of accomplishment.
Refs are what teach you how something bends, moves, flows~ <3
I have folders on my computer full of animal pictures so I can see how their proportions are and how the move or stand. How the face looks when turned slightly turned at an angle etc.
I am all about some references lol
I dislike the use of bases and the 'photocopy' art that people do. (Where they draw a picture that they look at, manga art, screen shots, posters, etc. but it's technically not tracing)
I see neither as really being creative. If feels more like borderline theft.
But don't get me started on art theft >:C
Still, love this. You're awesome!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thank you very much.
At the end of the day, we should be helping each other, not stealing from each other. Being an artist is hard enough without having to worry about other artists taking your hard work. We already have enough people against us.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So true.
It's sad that a lot of people think "Oh, you draw? Don't you have something better to do?" or that it's some dumb past time.
Too many people don't care about art anymore. It's really a shame. Unless it has to do with movies or makes them a profit, who cares. -cry-
I think one thing that irks me most are 'original characters' that are pretty much recolors or slight alterations of screen shots or someone else's art.
They flood a good deal of the groups I'm in..
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
dA just happens to be a site with a lot of very young users, and unfortunately they don't all understand the value of hard work and want things instantly. But people learn and grow with time, they just need the right information and drive.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
| Next =>