LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-04-29 17:03:20 +0000 UTC]

As long as the person knows what they're talking about, I'm fine with critiques c: Helps me see other sides and learn things as well as helps others who come upon the comment

1. Affirmative is more along the lines of the tense of the sentences rather than what form of formality. "He is walking a dog." "Is" is the affirmative part. It's a positive sentence. "Masu" is both polite and affirmative c:

The "next verb form" is due to the fact that I put up a tutorial on dictionary form previously. I felt like that should be explained first since that is often how verbs are given in vocabulary and how you see them in the dictionary. You're welcome to check it out if you'd like c:

2/3. There are many verbs that are made from 'kuru' and 'suru' and I thought it would help those understand that they are all connected by putting them in one group. It may confuse them on their understanding if I said you can put any noun with them and it would work when in some cases you would need a particle or the new verb in general would not work.

I call them "irregular" as that is what I have always been taught and what I have seen in three separate books that teach Japanese. My way of teaching stems from those books (more specifically, two of the three as the first one was back in high school and I don't remember much of it. The later two being "Genki" and "Japanese in Mangaland") and how my teachers have explained things to me.

I think it would be a bit much to include all the conjugations of an u-verb in one tutorial (that was just meant to teach one form), but I do see your point. I don't do much research when it comes to these tutorials aside from using the two books I've mentioned above, but in the future, I'll try to stretch my wings a bit and see if I can get more information and explanation put into these tutorials. I think that would help me as well since I'm still new and newbish at this language, even after two years

I'm curious as to what books or resources you use(d) to learn so I may check them out as well. It's always good to see different ways of approaching something c:

Haha, yes, I will do my best, thank you

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-04-29 18:20:38 +0000 UTC]

1. After I looked up "affirmative" in a dictionary, I did kind of get why you had it there, but I dunno, I was just thinking you only explain how to make the "masu" in here, and in another text you'd teach the difference with masu and masen (and do the past tense with masu etc). Hence I was kind of thinking that this is just where masu gets overall explained, and felt like affirmative could be replaced by polite. Also I hope that made some sense.

I do get where you're coming from with the dictionary form gets taught first thing. When I got first taught how to make masu, I was so confused and all " Wait why are we skipping the dictionary form? Isn't that the logical one to start with". My teacher just said that it's better to learn masu first because it's the most used form because it's the polite form (etc).


2/3. Huh, I was right with the "my critique might be the result of being taught in a different way". I swear to god that not even the Japanese are sure about how their language works

I do get why you'd call kuru and suru irregular. It's just that when you turn these verbs to their masu-forms, they both change in the same way (-uru part leaves, add i+masu). There's nothing really irregular about that (after all, they belong to the 3rd verb group, their /own/ group), these verbs just do some extra work with being used in things like "benkyousuru" etc. Well, that's just my view on it.

Didn't really mean you'd have to explain all the conjugations there, maybe just give a brief explanation and then add a link to where you can read more about them, or something like that.

Also, for having studied this language for two years, that is really good! When I read this I didn't feel like I was reading something writen by a newbie, but rather I felt like I was reading something writen by someone who knows what they're talking about.

To answer your question about the books I've used... Hard to answer. I would assume that my Japanese teacher got some Japanese book for Americans in Japan and translated the English parts to Finnish (I'm from Finland etc), and then printed the pages. I would assume that's how it went because the Finnish in my books (which are just a pile of printed paper stapled together) is pretty bad (though perfectly understandable), and my teacher speaks on the same way. Also the DVDs that are related to our books are in Japanese, and the only subs you get are in English (and not everything is subbed). So I don't think you can get your hands on the books I use.

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-04 14:37:06 +0000 UTC]

1. "Masu" will only be explained here, the others will be in another deviation, that is correct. I don't think you quite understand the meaning of "affirmative." Teaching someone "masu" and just saying it is a polite form is like teaching someone "ringo" and telling them it is a "noun." Yes, "masu" is a polite form, but so is "masen", "mashita", etc. They are all polite but only "masu" is affirmative.

2/3. Teaching another language is tricky since everyone likes to learn a different way or has their own background of how they were taught and going outside of that can be uncomfortable.

They may change into "imasu" now, but believe me, they change into strange forms later on in other verb conjugations. If I were to place them under u-verbs, it would just confuse people later.

People are always welcome to use the internet, books or other outside sources of information. This account is just one source. I would never recommend just learning from me. The more places, the better.

I'm glad it sounds at least somewhat professional Thank you.

Ah, okay. I understand. How long have you been studying?

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-04 15:47:03 +0000 UTC]

1. I do know what affirmative means @A@ I'm just getting the feeling that I didn't explain myself well enough... or we're just on different wavelenghts and will never understand each other (has happened so many times before....)

I just finished my third course, so I've been studying the language for three years now. When the next course starts the first thing we're going to learn are "if" (/verb's dictionary form's imperfect tense + ra) and with kanjis were going to the 167th and continue towards infinity. So ya, I could've entered the last JLPT N5 had I felt like doing so.

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-06 15:46:42 +0000 UTC]

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey then. You're welcome to continue explaining your point.

Congrats on finishing your third course! It's a big accomplishment to get so far. I'm nervous about my fifth. According to the teachers, it's all in Japanese O_O Best of luck in continuing your education c:

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-06 20:24:52 +0000 UTC]

Bah, too lazy to even try

Whoa you're starting your fifth one? 0A0 I mean I am aware that studying at a community college is not fast or anything, especially when it's 24 lessons per winter, 1 each week (+vacations and shit), but holy crap you've studied twice as fast as I have! (GoddammitIwashopingIwasthesenpaihere)
I must say it was not an accomplishment or anything to get this far. It's been a breeze (then again, community college = no tests, essays, no worries about your grade etc ) and there's only been like one or two hard grammar things so far and the kanjis aren't something to worry about either. So ya, big accomplishment this is not.
Also don't worry about it all being in Japanese! Our book stopped having the romanji (with the exeption of vocabularies and grammar parts) 5-7 chapters ago, and it hasn't been hard at all. Also our homework has never had any explanations to what to do, we only got one or two examples on the excercise and had to figure out on our own what to write. I'm sure your books are better than mine though, so for you there should be absolutely no problems whatsoever.

I must wonder though, what's the last thing you've studied so far in the grammar? oAo Also how many kanjis have you had so far? Me is curious owo

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-17 16:58:30 +0000 UTC]

Haha, alright.

I will be this fall. We have about 12 lessons per semester. Each lesson has a few grammar points, a set of vocabulary and about 15 kanji with two (sometimes three or four) readings. It's no biggie who knows more, we're both learning and we both have the same goal c:

This past semester was rough. The teacher upped the difficulty so it was a bit stressful on whether or not I would pass. Luckily I did c: It goes fast though, every semester did. I do wish we'd review past grammar points more often, but it's just expected that we know them. It's tough, but I enjoy it.

I'd still say it is an accomplishment. You're working on learning a new language. Not many people can stick through it all the way. Especially in America, haha.

Romaji stopped at chapter three in our book, I believe. I'm glad they stop it so early. Some books use it all the way through, which I do not condone.

Our book is fairly similar with homework. Just an example and then we have to figure it out. It's not so bad though. It covers everything in the chapter, so as long as you know the grammar point it is going over, it's not so bad.

I'd have to get my book, all the grammar things we've learned mesh together in my mind. ... Causative-passive sentences, "even if" (temo), "decide to do..." (kotonisuru), "until/till" (made) and "how to do..." (kata). The book ends at kanji #317, so 317 kanji

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-17 18:11:48 +0000 UTC]

I know it's not important or anything, when ever I just see someone say something about Japan, I go on a weeaboo mode and instantly want to correct it. And now I feel quilty for being so cocky

On each lesson we first take a look at our kanji book and learn a few kanjis (or check our kanji homework. Each chapter has A and B page (together they have between 8 and 12 kanjis in total) and a homework page, so ya, 1 page per lesson). The rest of the lesson depends on where we are at the chapter; if we're in the begining of a new chapter, we listen the dialouge, read the vocabulary, maybe learn something trivial from the teacher and if we have time, go further in the chapter. If we're in the middle of a chapter, then we just do the excercises together and learn grammar. Also we listen to a CD, read out loud some stuff and check other homework.

You know what helps me? Get an empty notebook and write all the grammar stuff into the notebook, both old and new. Not only do you re-remember old things, but you also get an easy way to check grammar stuff when you don't remember how something works.

Actually I've watched so much Japanese cartoons in the past that I had learned some things before actually starting to take lessons So really, so far on the lessons I've been learning how things like 'masu' or 'te' are made and work. Also Japanese is an easy language so it's not really an accomplisment. German for example I've been studying for 5 years now and I'm not even sure if I can introduce myself because of the crazy ass grammar So yeah, Japanese is not a problem.

Huh, I was expecting your books to be at least a little bit less sadistic. Then again, my current German book doesn't even have examples, at best it tells you to "write" in German. And of course said German book is supposed to be professionally made (and yet the stapled together-Japanese book our teacher gave us is more clear with the excercises...)

Some similiar things there, a few things we haven't learned yet. Also that's a lot of kanjis.

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-20 15:13:15 +0000 UTC]

Ah, I see. I try not to do that since I don't know for sure how much they know.

Sounds like a good learning session c: In our class, whenever we start off a new chapter, we do a few kanji then the first grammar lesson in that chapter then practice it a bit in class. Pretty simplistic days xD Once we get to the end of the chapter is when we start doing the readings.

My boyfriend did that and I did that for a while with the notebook. Though I'm also technically doing it with this account, at least for the older stuff, haha. I need to get off my lazy bum and type up some more tutorials faster.

I've watched a lot of anime in the past too...though for "a lot", it probably isn't more than the average. I was never really too obsessed with it. I did learn some from watching it, but I think finally getting more serious in college helped the best.

I don't find Japanese an easy language at all xD I do like how some of their systems are consistent, but I think the German langauge is far simpler. The sentence structure is nearly identical with English and we have a lot of similar grammatical things. Japanese is like the complete opposite, not to mention all the kanji and kana one has to learn to be able to read it (unlike languages that use Latin letters).

I don't really find the books that sadistic. I know my teacher for this past semester wasn't fond of them though. But I think this book is the best I've seen so far in learning a language. (I'm sure there are way better ones out there though, haha.)

Indeed it is a lot of kanji

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-20 16:50:35 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I should learn to control my inner weeaboo better

I'd love to say that I haven't watched a lot of Japanese cartoons, but the 500+ One Piece episodes along with at least 20 other series, and a crap load of movies on top of that, aren't really helping me here But then again, I've only learned some "unproper" Japanese which you wouldn't use in real life, so the usefulness of all that can be easily questioned.

I think German is the hardest language I've ever come across (after my native language, of course). All the inflecting and articles and god knows what else.... The grammar is ridiculous in my eyes, while Japanese grammar is really simple. But yeah, different people find different things hard. I have a friend who's really bad at English but is really good at Swedish, while I speak English better that my native, and don't understand Swedish at all So yeah, I understand

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-21 23:44:20 +0000 UTC]

Haha, it's alright

I'm not really a fan of One Piece. Just not my thing. My personal favorite is Case Closed/Detective Conan. I can never get enough of that one. If you want to watch something entertaining that will help you learn more of the actual speech, Japanese drama is a great route to go. It's not a hard transition from anime either (if you're into the silly ones) since they can be just as crazy.

To each their own, I guess I never went too far into it, only two high school years, though the second year I didn't pay too much attention since I was more interested in teaching myself Japanese.

That's happened with my boyfriend. While he still knows and is fluent in Russian (his native), he is way more fluent in English. I think it's mainly because he doesn't use it as often.

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-22 12:53:14 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, that's a problem with One Piece. Either you love it or it just isn't your thing. So can't blame you or anything I have watched one "drama"... Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon. And yeah, it was just as silly as the cartoon (actually even sillier in the begining of the show...). I should try to watch some other dramas though. Some good sentai series could be close enough.

Well, be happy that you didn't. German is a pretty useless, unless you're going to travel to central Europe, which is the only place it's useful at.

From personal experience I can safely say that it's because he doesn't use it enough often. But then again, Russian is the last language I would expect to hear in America, so it's understandable why that would happen. I have no excuses for sucking at my native language

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-22 15:07:12 +0000 UTC]

Oh my gosh, I LOVE PGSM XDD It's so hilarious. If you're into the funny ones, Hana Kimi (the first one, the second one is a bit more serious) is a good one as well.

I do want to go back and learn it one day, only after Japanese and Russian though, haha. A friend of mine wants to learn all the romantic languages. She's already got Spanish down. You could say Japanese is useless too since the only people who speak it are in Japan But I guess it can be helpful if you're going into a business that mingles with them. Mandarin would probably be the language to learn if you're going the "useful" route. China is everywhere nowadays lol

Well his parents only spoke to him in Russian as well as his family and family friends. (That new year party sure was awkward for me!) He's rusty, but he hasn't lost it yet. But for him, yeah, he'd say he wouldn't use it often enough. I think it helped him when I took Russian one this past semester. I'm sure it'd be neat to see how ones native language it taught to a foreigner, haha.

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-22 15:40:35 +0000 UTC]

Holy crap a fellow PGSM fan! AWESOME! *Highfive* I'll check out Hana Kimi for sure, eventually (don't like watching many different series at the same time, I prefer having long marathons).

Yeah. Apart from those two, the only "useful use" for Japanese is when you want to use Japanese media (wheter it was games, cartoons, music etc etc). I can't stand watching some shows with subtitles (because leaving words like "nakama" really pisses me off, no clue why, just does), and really I want to be able to understand puns and jokes better. But yeah, other than those 3 uses, Japanese is indeed really useless. The only useful languages in the world are English, Spanish and Mandarin indeed.

Good that he hasn't lost it. It is the worst thing that can ever happen with languages. Good luck with learning Russian then ^_^ (Also if you're curious how English is taught up here in the North, my old teacher (who was from le UK) said that our books are really dumb. So ya, there's an idea how it is here)

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-24 15:02:38 +0000 UTC]

It's not often I come across another person who likes it I know what you mean. That's how I feel about art projects too. I can't do multiple at a time, only one, haha.

Subtitles can be a little annoying at times since they're not always right. I don't find myself ready to watch without them yet though. I think I still have a long ways to go before that happens.

I'd hate to lose how to speak a language too...if I knew one other than English Thank you though! I probably won't pursue the language in my school since the class was terrible. I'm probably better off learning on my own for now (plus I have him as a teacher ). (Thanks for the info, haha. There probably is no perfect way to teach a language to another person. So many variables and little things. *shrug*)

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-24 15:31:52 +0000 UTC]

I know right! It's such a joy to find someone else who likes it!

That's another reason too. Partly the reason why I stopped watching cartoons with subs in general. Though it had backfired a few times. For example when I watched Mawaru Penguin Drum I had no clue on the hell was going on, especially in the last few episodes.

Be happy that your language is really widely used- you will never forget it ^w^

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-25 15:21:18 +0000 UTC]

Indeed so^^

I think you may be ahead of me then with knowing Japanese if you can watch and understand completely without subtitles

True true. I guess that's one good thing about our language. Aside from that though, I'm not really a fan of it lol

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-25 20:10:47 +0000 UTC]

I wouldn't be so sure about "being ahead". Usually the visuals help to explain what is going on, so even if I miss a third of the dialouge, the visuals will surely explain. Of course my understanding of what is going on depends on what kind of a show it I am watching. If it's a simple kids show like 90's Moomin, Coji-Coji or Cyborg Kuro-chan, it's very unlikely there will be any complicated dialouge, so understanding stuff should not be a problem. And of course these shows are really unknown, so even if I wanted to watch them with subtitles, I wouldn't be able to find subbed versions. Then there's stuff like Mawaru Penguin Drum and Ghost in the Shell etc, where if you want to understand what is going on, subs are pretty much obligatory. So ya, point was, I'm probably not really ahead of you, I just watch stuff that's so simple that anyone could get it

Aww, but English is such a pretty language

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-05-26 15:34:11 +0000 UTC]

I always found it more difficult to watch anime with no subs than dramas. I can see the expressions and movements and get the overall feel better which helps in the understanding. Nothing is over exaggerated (like crazy faces or broken/extended limbs, etc. lol) and I think it helps that it's real people. That's just me though. We do what works best for us^^

Really? I guess I'm just so used to it I don't really see it. Although I come across so many people that butcher it (natives, mind you), it's hard to call it pretty, haha. I think French sounds pretty, but I'd never want to learn it. I guess it's easier to see the beauty in languages other than your own lol

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-05-28 20:04:33 +0000 UTC]

If English is being butchered, I don't know what we are doing [link] Just read the whole list, and you should be able to get a faint idea. But yeah, I do get where you're coming from. A language's beauty depends on it's user. I must wonder though, why does everyone think French is a pretty language?

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-06-24 16:15:50 +0000 UTC]

Haha XD That makes things entertaining lol
I'm not sure. Maybe it's just the way it rolls off their tongue. Although another thing I LOVE to hear is a native Spanish speaker speaking fluent English. There was a girl in my Japanese class and I always loved hearing her talk just because of that

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-06-26 09:18:19 +0000 UTC]

Man languages can be silly (/Interesting reply OTL)

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LearningJapanese In reply to SnowLady4Ever [2012-08-27 20:02:08 +0000 UTC]

//late reply

Yes then can (/Even more interesting reply XD)

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SnowLady4Ever In reply to LearningJapanese [2012-09-08 16:58:09 +0000 UTC]

//A reply even more late

(/This isn't even a reply at all. *Flips table*)

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