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Published: 2010-02-28 16:06:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 4597; Favourites: 16; Downloads: 278
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Request:. Alice kissingI’m sorry, but I can’t do this. I tried and this is the best result by far, but it’s just not working.
There are several reasons.
Kissing is a damn complicated pose.
Two faces this close, angled, it would be difficult enough anyway but trying to get a likeness to a certain person when half of the face is covered by another person?
It made me realize my Alice is only recognizable because I can do the make-up (hidden here), finally start to get a hang of the nose (hidden and I couldn't find a reference pic at a useable angle anyway) and mouth/teeth/smile (hidden).
No matter what I tried it could be anybody kissing - or more precisely being kissed.
Which bring me to my next point: I usually draw from reference pictures. I have tons of pics to look at mouth / eyes / certain expressions from smiling to growling but let me tell you absolutely no material for kissing. Licking yes, but not a single romantic kiss, at best a peck on the cheek. If any of you have material, speak up!
Anyway, it made me realize the following things:
The only kissing that ever happens with Alice (the character) involved is either kissing himself or the unresponsive dead (sometimes both in one). He just doesn't kiss romantically.
It seems from the material out there it's not just ALice the character, even the creator is shy to kiss his own wife in public in more than an affectionate way.
A surprising realization about somebody who can suggest the most naughty scenarios, let me tell you!
So I had to find somebody else to initiate a kiss and take him by surprise since him kissing didn't work at all for me. Believe it or not I usually think a bit about a picture and especially the story I want the pose to tell before I sit down and start to sketch.
Since the request didn't specify anything but 'kissing a girl' and I was already OOC enough I decided to take a girl that at least has some business with Alice. I had done Ethyl and Black Widow already, that left Rozetta.
I like her, though she has changed a lot. When I heard the song the first time my impression was that she was just a regular girl doing her job and was blamed for the illicit thoughts she caused in a man. He was not supposed to feel that way, it could not be his fault so he said it was the girl’s doing.
Of course with the latest version that interpretation of Rozetta has been changed by Alice himself, she's a real vixen driving a man up the wall and she knows it. In the first version Alice was the one who was doing something wrong by lusting after her, in the newer one, he's at the mercy of a seductress.
Am I the only one who has realized that this has happened a lot?
Another example is "Dead babies".
Older version: he was wrong, killing something pure and innocent which was shocking and made him the bad guy
Today: the baby has turned into a monster, often even attacking him and he's killing in self-defence. But it has lost some of the shock-value that way.
Wow, a lot of talk for a picture I couldn't do.
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Comments: 44
cynicallia [2010-04-12 00:04:08 +0000 UTC]
For as tricky as kisses are, and the fact that ye are dealing with at least one real and specific person, I say it came out as well as it could. I have a few pictures of romantic kissing, and near-kissing, and I have a somewhat Alice look to myself.. with a bit of creativity and patience, ye could probably make them work. I can do reference/mock up photos by request, but ye would have to pretend my husband was a wicked nurse (my lady fiends are camera shy).
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Nephtis In reply to cynicallia [2010-04-12 18:50:41 +0000 UTC]
Oh thanks, but I've given up on this kissing idea, it seems so OOC to me anyway.
I tried, this was the best I could come up with and that's that. There are so many more fun things I could have him do...
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AlicesArtMaiden [2010-03-01 01:42:36 +0000 UTC]
sorry that it didn't really work right for you. but i think it's good, i realy like it. and i know what you mean by kissing is hard to draw.
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Nephtis In reply to AlicesArtMaiden [2010-03-01 06:47:08 +0000 UTC]
If I remember correctly you did some kissing picture too, didn't you?
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AlicesArtMaiden In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-01 22:31:57 +0000 UTC]
yes i did for HopelessRayne. she asked me to draw her a picture from one of her fanfictions, so i picked The one that got away.
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myoneandonly [2010-02-28 23:58:52 +0000 UTC]
Very true, that IS a difficult pose. I think you did pretty well with what you have though.
My advice is, if all else fails, just Google "couple kissing" or something like that. Chances are you won't find professional-grade stock, but once you sift through the less savory bits that are bound to pop up as well, I'll bet you'll get screencaps from movies and the like that'll turn out really helpful.
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Nephtis In reply to myoneandonly [2010-03-01 06:49:36 +0000 UTC]
You wouldn't believe the things that came up when I tried "couple kissing", but the were a lot more helpful than the things that I got for "Alice Cooper" & kiss (got the band, not the action).
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cooperchick [2010-02-28 22:38:30 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for drawing the picture. Alice looks lovely as always! May I make a suggestion? If you draw them ABOUT to kiss, like inches apart from kissing, it might be easier.You did a beautiful job on it anyway. As for the character , I agree with you. The kiss would have to be forced upon Alice. So, thank you again for taking the time to draw and share your work!
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Nephtis In reply to cooperchick [2010-03-01 14:51:17 +0000 UTC]
Not working either... *sigh* Sketched and gave up already.
It won't work, you'll have to live with this one.
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cooperchick In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-01 22:58:58 +0000 UTC]
Oh well, Beautiful pic anyway And thank you so much for trying! Can't to see more of your Alice art!!
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MadCanuckster [2010-02-28 21:30:04 +0000 UTC]
I agree that romantic kissing is hard to do, if not nearly impossible. So here's a suggestion (or two or more): you could try changing the angle a bit, to perhaps show more of his face (like drawing it so that Alice is facing forward, instead of to the side.). Or, maybe you could draw her, say, kissing his neck, instead (or lower, LoL) -- maybe that would show more of his face, too. Or, if you wanted to get kinky, you could maybe draw his hands over his head AND draw her kissing lower. *Whoa! I'm outta breath!* Just suggestions. I hope maybe they will help. As for reference pictures, I'll try to see what I can do. After all, it would be pretty neat to help you with something, if I can.
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Nephtis In reply to MadCanuckster [2010-02-28 21:56:23 +0000 UTC]
Just realized if I changed the angle and drew Alice facing foward, you'd see even less of his face when kissing mouth to mouth because you'd see the back of his partner's head...
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MadCanuckster In reply to Nephtis [2010-02-28 22:04:28 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work, unless they aren't kissing mouth to mouth.
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Nephtis In reply to MadCanuckster [2010-03-01 06:45:50 +0000 UTC]
*lol* We all tend to thing just about Alice
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Nephtis In reply to MadCanuckster [2010-02-28 21:39:13 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for your suggestion, I never thought of doing that, I think the request said 'romantic' and to me that immmediately translated to 'mouth to mouth'...
Maybe I could get away with kissing some other area, though it also said Alice kissing, not being kissed.
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MadCanuckster In reply to Nephtis [2010-02-28 22:02:26 +0000 UTC]
I guess most people tend to think of "mouth-to mouth", when thinking of romance, and that's OK. Maybe if you're worried about it, you should ask the person that made the request.
As for "kissing"....... the word doesn't really have to imply that Alice is doing the action. Really all that "kissing" says is that two people are involved in kissing (either mouth to mouth or otherwise), and Alice is the main character attention is drawn to, whether he is kissing her, or vice-versa. Hope that helps!
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MadCanuckster In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-01 20:46:33 +0000 UTC]
OK!! Can't wait to see what you create!!
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Nephtis In reply to MadCanuckster [2010-03-01 21:01:02 +0000 UTC]
Not much it seems, a waste of paper. I give up.
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MadCanuckster In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-02 02:47:25 +0000 UTC]
Awww.... that's too bad. Oh, well.... I think your picture turned out quite nicely.
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dragonladych [2010-02-28 21:19:49 +0000 UTC]
See that's a big part of what I adore about Alice. He's like Hitchcock. Very good at suggesting all these things without ever showing them for real. Leaves more space for imagination.
I also very much admire him for never using profanity, that's quite a feat in his line of business. I have nothing against swearing I do it too, but only when it's really pertinent or needed. Swearing all the time like some rock stars etc do it, is "counterproductive" and childish I find.
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dragonladych In reply to dragonladych [2010-02-28 21:23:50 +0000 UTC]
Oh and about the changing of perspective. This has happened several times over the years I suppose he's adapting the character according to what he feels works best with his current character. "Spider" wouldn't feel guilty about much but he'd be easy to manipulate I guess.
I loved the early Alice who was an innocent victim that was forced into madness. But I also like the "Showman" and all the newer characters that are more in control. People don't always see that inside the continuity there is a lot of versatiliy still.
Hope that made sense.
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-02-28 21:53:01 +0000 UTC]
It made a lot of sense. All of it.
I rationally knew he was good at suggesting, but didn't realize *how* good. But I guess what makes him so good at his 'job' is that he knows the imagination of the viewer/listerner is the best thing to work with.
I agree about the over-use of swearing but when given a valid reason I don't mind so much.
And you're right the change has happened more often than one would think, you need to look a bit closer to realize that while it's the same song, different incarnations of the Alice character have different interpretations. And if you look closely you can see it.
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-02-28 22:36:16 +0000 UTC]
Fascinating isn't it?
Have you also noticed he wrote new lyrics to "Devil's Food"? You can find them on STUK. My next Alice related project would be to draw something inspired by this.
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-01 06:45:10 +0000 UTC]
I read about it but haven't heard the new version yet. Devil's food is a great song for a music inspired picture, I agree!
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-01 11:24:18 +0000 UTC]
It will be on the new dvd, since it was part of the latest setlist.
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-01 12:55:13 +0000 UTC]
Looking forward to it. Any news on that DVD?
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-02 09:19:14 +0000 UTC]
Only what was said on the forums. Probably this Spring, should be soon now I suppose. Did you see there's a new date in Germany? Still not near you if I got that right but here's hoping!
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-02 09:51:50 +0000 UTC]
*ggg* I consider going it's just 1,5 h by car, I could manage - plus I even found somebody who would be willing to go with me.
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-02 11:42:54 +0000 UTC]
Ooooh! I thought you were further down South. Yes that's about what I have to drive either way, to Basel or Montreux. Would be great! I'd join you but that's really a bit far
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-03 08:43:29 +0000 UTC]
Let me know if you change your mind.
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-04 17:27:04 +0000 UTC]
That would be an 8 hours trip, plus hotel etc. Well not worse than going to London I guess. I am waiting for more European dates, but July is slowly filling up with US dates?
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-04 20:14:49 +0000 UTC]
8 hours is a lot, I agree. Personally I haven't made up my mind if it's worth a hotel, make it a short trip and do some sightseing in the area or if I want to drive back right away. Depends a bit on the people I travel with both would be possible.
And yes, I noticed that too. A few festivals in Europe but other than that it's mostly US dates.
If not in the summer maybe a November/December date? I'd love that!
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-04 21:10:19 +0000 UTC]
Well going to London was a long trip if you include the train the long waiting at airports etc. But it was great fun. And I used the opportunity to see some friends I hadn't seen in a while or even never met before.
Later dates would be cool too, but it will be harder to "program" my days off. Until now I could more or less change dates after giving my days to HR. But there will be some changes soon at work and I am not sure we'll be able to be as free as we were before!
It would be great to see Alice together someday!
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Nephtis In reply to dragonladych [2010-03-12 09:54:51 +0000 UTC]
Btw... I can't promise yet how my plans are going to be, but should you change your mind and I drive back home after the concert AND you're willing to put up with my obnoxious family (they *will* comment on the insanity of travelling this far to see 'some singer')a place to sleep should not be the problem.
But my place is not a 4**** hotel.
A lot of ifs, but maybe something to keep in mind if no better dates/venues show up on the tour schedule.
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dragonladych In reply to Nephtis [2010-03-12 10:47:08 +0000 UTC]
Thanks! I'll keep this in mind! Well if they think you're crazy what will they think of me I am used to this though. Where do you live by the way? Is it close to an international airport?
Too bad I stopped driving after concerts or I'd offer the same, but we could share a hotel if you ever want to come to Switzerland to see Alice.
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HopelessRayne [2010-02-28 18:05:15 +0000 UTC]
If it helps I think his jaw is very Alice. . But then again, I'm pretty secure in Alice anatomy now.
Ahem...
Love the point though, Alice has become the one getting messed with by lusting nurses and sharp teethed monster babies.
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Nephtis In reply to HopelessRayne [2010-02-28 18:35:40 +0000 UTC]
*rofl* a look at the boots should tell you what I think about this Alice...
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HopelessRayne In reply to Nephtis [2010-02-28 19:54:30 +0000 UTC]
It's not the most individual part but I think it looks Alice-ish.
Wrongness of the character would be fun again. Idk, I like him being the one that gets all this stuff happening to him though too. Feels like regular life then like 'I can't catch a break from these lusting women and monster babies'. Lol.
I did notice the boots I thought you might have been changing your mind about how you felt about them. Guess I was wrong.
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Nephtis In reply to HopelessRayne [2010-02-28 20:36:14 +0000 UTC]
No, didn't change my mind.
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Nephtis In reply to HopelessRayne [2010-02-28 18:29:47 +0000 UTC]
*ggg* thanks, but I'm not sure I detect that too. Jaws are not the most individual partof anatomy.
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You know, I think I'd go for a little increase in 'wrongness' in the character again.
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