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poly-m — TropesVSWomen in a nutshell
Published: 2012-06-14 13:55:51 +0000 UTC; Views: 9253; Favourites: 151; Downloads: 74
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For those who don't know what Tropes VS Women is, Google is your friend .
Btw, don't hesitate to save this, share, repost, link anywhere you want.
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Comments: 288
Poly, you are the reason why women should be equal to men. You are reasonable, funny and intelligent. You draw better than I can paint.
All the rabid extremists yelling sexist and other -ists at every occasion are just idiots, and make women look like idiots in the eyes of manchildren mistaking disturbed people over the internet as average women everywhere.
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Anita needs to shut the hell up, seriously. I get stereotypes, but it's mostly people just being confused and weirded out that I'm a metalhead, I'm really smart, I love video games, I'm on DA but I can't stand shipping...
There is no conspiracy, just stereotypes about what's 'normal'. And as a woman, I do NOT want the next inconvenient misconception about me to involve being batshit crazy!
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GENIUS!!!! XD I love it. After seeing her videos and reactions I thought of the exact same thing.
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MON DIEU MAIS cette BD est SEXISTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with Peach being a damsel in distress. That's what her character is. I see no sexism whatsoever. And besides, she's a Princess. Princesses typically aren't taught how to defend themselves. I wish they were, because it's nice for everyone male or female to be capable of defending themselves, but I'm fine with Peach being the lovable damsel that she is.
If anything, Mario and Link are put through more Hell than Zelda or Peach when you think about it. And in Zelda's case as a damsel, her position does not strip her of her power. She's the wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom, that's why Gannon wants her in the first place.
And due to the recent news that she doesn't even like video games, seems very obvious why she doesn't realize this.
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Anita's arguments have always confused the shit out of me but I'm chalking it up to the fact that I'm a woman gamer who honestly doesn't give a shit about how sexualized or cliche a female character is.
If I personally like the character, despite the flaws others see, I like the character. The superficial aspects play second fiddle as to whether or not I identify with the character or even look up to the character. I like damsel characters and badass characters in equal measure because I'm a rather romantic thinker.
About the only thing I can actually agree with Anita on is that perhaps women characters could stand some toning down a little. Maybe have a badass Plain Jane character. But overall, I actually don't care that much about the superficial aspects the way she rants about.
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So true! I wouldn't be surprised if she found way to accuse board games of being sexist next lol
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Anita Sarkeesian is a joke. She tries too hard to see sexism where it doesn't exist. Look, I hate sexism in both flavors. The persecution and horrible crap women in third world countries go through is bullshit, and I hope that things improve for them considerably. If Anita is a true feminist, she'd stop bitching about video games and actually go and advocate women's rights in countries that need them.
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Women like Anita Sarkeesian don't really care about womens rights, they just want excuse to hate men and act like cunts.
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She's like the Bill O'Reilly of feminists.
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Correction, $158,922 for one rather half assed, one sided video which has been thoroughly argued by people who did it for free. Seriously, by the time she releases the rest of her videos the ice caps will have melted and all her supporters will have either moved on or shot themselves out of shame. I never thought 'victim' was a profession until I discovered Anita Sarkeesian.
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I actually read her thesis. Accordingly she states that women can't be portrayed as strong, decisicive or display any sort of leadership skill and having an emotional handle on things is because these women are only trying to emulate themselves as men.
So by her logic, the perfectly feminist game must have no male or female characters. Hmmm... well the only game on my mind like that is Tetri...
...oh...
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No, what she's trying to say is: girls can be strong, and be good characters, and still be feminine.
Like, a lady character doesn't have to be a hard-ass militant woman with a cropped haircut, a harsh attitude, and strictly-policed emotions to be 'strong,' but that's the popular trope that people will often default to.
They think that the best way to make a female character 'strong' is by assigning her distinctly masculine traits. But, there is a much better way to do this.
If you just give a normal female character or a female protagonist the chance to go through actual character development-- trials and obstacles to overcome so that she might grow as a person (without relying on her sexuality as a weapon/to draw appeal, but instead using her brain or her skills and abilities)-- if you just give a normal female character some chance to develop, then it'd show her strengths in that way.
This way, portrays her as a human being who can grow and change and become stronger, instead of portraying her as a trophy, fan service, love interest, damsel in distress, etc..
Portal and Portal 2 are excellent examples feminist games, and they're pretty cheap if you bought them over in Steam. I would definitely recommend playing them, if you have some free time.
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I am sorry I have to disagree with you there. While I do agree with you in regards to how a female character should be treated, the main issue isn't feminist characters and tropes in gaming. The main issue is Anita herself. She isn't facing the problem in a rational manner nor is she properly researching the form of media that she criticizes. The biggest problem of all is that she is VERY prone to hypocrisy, which is sadly a very big problem in the feminist movement. What one feminist would consider liberating, the other would see as oppressive.
It has reached a point where there isn't any grounding for Anita. It seems almost that instead of setting up a set of principles for herself, she will use any feminist principle that is convenient for her at that particular time, if it means to show what she is going up against as sexist and offensive. One moment she will complain that a female character is too butch. The other she will complain that the female is too sexualized. And yes, while the Portal games (hell, I would even go so far as to say the whole Valve library, especially the Half Life 2 games) are excellent examples, I have seen feminists like Anita flip their fudge over things like how Chell now wears her jumpsuit top around her waist. With polarizing opinions of course. So where does one draw the line.
All in all, my problem is not that she is a feminist or wants to have women portrayed tastefully in games. There is a need for that (hell, I would argue that there is even a need to portray men more tastefully as well). My problem is that she set out with a certain objective and set herself as the face of feminism in gaming... and has failed spectacularly in both fronts.
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I don't understand. Can you please elaborate on some of your points? I don't know in which ways she's been hypocritical. If you could provide some examples with sources displaying her hypocrast, I'd be willing to look at them? Just, without some clear examples to back up what you're saying, it looks a lot like.. you just dislike her because she's her, and I'll need more than that? Especially with the "What one feminist would consider liberating, the other would see as oppressive" bit, because, most people seem to be pretty much on the same page? Like, I understand that people learn more as time goes on, and they change their opinions on things, and things that they once saw as being liberating could now be seen as oppressive, etc... but, yeah, you're generalizing things way too much. If you were willing to explain things more clearly, I'm more than willing to hear what you have to say.
But, to me, the things she was saying make a whole lotta sense. What I took away from it was that it's not about characters being too 'butch' or too sexualized, you can't think in black and white like that. It's the terms under which they're "butched" or sexualized that you have to consider. And that's kinda the whole point in thinking in a more feminist way. "Is this character sexualized because she's asserting her independence? Or is she sexualized purely for fan-service? Is this character being 'butched' up because we're trying to assert that being strong automatically means being more masculine? Or is this simply the character's personality? Is this character being written off as a love interest with pretty much no character development otherwise? Or is she a really good character, and love just happens to be another part of her life, just like any other well-rounded person?"
But, see, I don't understand how you've decided she's failed? Like, I understand you have a very negative opinion of her, but you're just not really providing enough supporting facts to make your opinion seem valid? I feel like her videos provide a lot of information, they're very clearly laid out, each videos objective is clearly explained and with a lot of examples and sources, etc.. But, if you were willing to explain a bit more on how you feel she's failed, I'd be willing to listen to it.
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Of course I am generalizing! I am not here to discuss in great length and detail the good, the bad and the ugly of Anita, tropes, gaming and feminism. I came here to read a comic I found funny and poignant, I gave my opinion over the issue. End of story. You gave your opinion. I gave you my opinion of your opinion. Now to you this has become serious enough that I need to provide sources, quotes, links and give extensive explanations of how I came to these conclusions.
I am not going to do that. You may call me a hack, retard, moron, chauvinistic, misogynist or whatever the hell you want to make yourself feel better, but I am not going to drag myself into an eternal comment war.
I will end with this: I don't think Anita is a bad person, nor do I think her message is lacking in credance. I just think she needs to do a better job and be more intelligent about it. In the end, her show IS an opinion piece, and therefore anyone should be allowed to disagree with it.
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Yes, you gave me your opinion (of my opinion), and I gave you my opinion (on your opinion) in return.
I'm not saying "you're not allowed to disagree with Anita, she is infallible," I wanted to know why you are of that opinion, and I was whole-heartedly willing to hear your side of things, and to try to understand where you were coming from, since you and a lot of other people seem to have a pretty strong opinion on her? Asking for specific examples of what helped you to form your opinion (so that I can try to understand your mind) shouldn't be regarded as hostility.
I never called you any of those bad things, and I don't want to. And so, if you don't want to talk about it more in-depth, then that's totally fine; I don't mind.
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Okay, you have been very civil which is more than I can say about most commentators. If you want to know why I don't like Anita, or more specifically her show and what she is doing (I really have nothing against her, just her opinion), these guys basically tell it as it is for me at least.
[link]
They do cover some of her hypocrisy (especially in regards of backpeddling) but my beef is basically she said one thing in her master's thesis and then another in the first episode of Tropes versus Women in Gaming. Again, my postion is best explained by these people.
Once again, thanks. :3
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Hey, thanks so much for getting back to me, and for linking me. I'm really sorry if I made you feel stressed out, and I appreciate your taking the time to give me some more information. I'll consider it carefully. :>
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Yeah that's what I say when you say you just CANT win.
Chances are that it's just what she's gonna say in the next video where she'll talk about female protagonists.
You know I feel sorry for her. It must be very depressing to have such a pessimistic vision of the world.
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In the end, the best way to write a female character? Write her the same way one would write a guy: to have a character fill a niche in the plot. Need a doofus? A scientist? Hell, a villain? GO CRAZY!!!
I do feel sorry for her. Granted there is fun in ranting and raving, but one must always be coherent and intelligent about it.
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I like the first episode so far and I can't to see more. Makes me wonder why Nintendo ever think of actually having a Zelda game were you get to play as Zelda.
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The first episode definetely had an interesting tone ; and I even learnt some things in it ! So I'll definetely watch the whole thing.
It's a shame, though, that she disabled comments and rating. Kinda ironic to make an episode about damsels in distress and putting yourself in a defensive position.
But in the end, I don't think my comic will lose of its meaning after reading the whole thing. Despite having a moderating tone, I don't think she'll ever take off her sexism-goggles while playing videogames.
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Will have to wait and see what she thinks about certain female protagonists like Jade from Beyond & Evil, Nariko from Heavenly Sword and Kat from Gravity Rush.
Star Fox Adventure seems like a game that was in a lose-lose situation. It annoyed Anita because the Star Fox named was slapped on an original IP while JonTron is pissed at the game because it doesn't feel like Star Fox. Nintendo and Rare shot themselves in the foot on that one.
I would love to see Anita tear apart Douche Nukem, the king of misogyny.
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Sometimes I think most shit stems from the fact humanity as a whole have the inability to separate fictional space from reality.
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Tropes Vs. Women sort of bums me out because I REAAALLY want the gaming community to become more friendly towards women and I want there to be a better variety of female roles in games, but the way the person who came up with TvW just feels more like an angry cry for attention then a logical answer to the problem.
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Sweet mercy you're here to educate me and put me into the right path.
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No, I'm simply just pointing out that you're a moron.
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Man, there go all my hopes of redemption.
Oh well.
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Because she's criticizing Anita? It seems like anyone who criticizes her falls into one of two categories (depending on gender):
1. If a man is criticizing Anita, he's obviously a sexist privileged pig who is not worth taking seriously.
2. If a woman is criticizing Anita, she's obviously so oppressed by the patriarchy that she doesn't know it and need saving or is self-loathing.
Before you ask I did watch Anita's first video, while it's interesting to hear the history of the damsel in distress trope she doesn't bring anything new to the table, it's all been repeated umpteen times. Seriously it's like a narration of the Wikipedia article on the trope and/or the TV tropes article on the trope. I just don't like that anyone who criticizes Anita gets lumped in with the 4chan trolls who harassed her. Did she deserve the harassment? No, but that doesn't mean she's immune to criticism. And if you respond, respond by addressing points not just lazily linking something and calling me "ignorant" or "educate yourself". Or just insulting my intelligence for no reason other then I disagree with you.
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Have to say I love that you're jumping to conclusions. I'm all for constructive criticism, unfortunately this isn't it.
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I'm just saying having seen some of Anita's fans on other places on the net and whatnot I just pointed out that these the usual responses they give to people. So sorry if it seemed like I was jumping to conclusions but this is just based on observations and personal experience with some of Anita's fans. But again if you disagree with someone actually address their points regardless of how "stupid" they may be, not just insulting someone's intelligence.
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Normally I would, however I'm sure it would only get a lengthy response like the one you have given me, without taking into consideration a different point of view. There comes a time when you realise people won't listen to reason.
This comic is still moronic.
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Well people often give lengthy responses when there is someone who challenges their worldview (I wouldn't consider my response long, there's just people who consider anything longer then 3 full lines in and internet response a full length novel). Perhaps I worded that wrong with "regardless of how stupid they may be" as people will often defend pointless or possibly immoral behavior. You haven't challenged mine it was simply a misconception of your original comment nothing more, it's hard to separate if it's just a person criticizing or rabid white knights defending their "idol" in these situations. I hope this clears things up.
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Funny enough how you say that people 'lump together' Anita Sarkeesian's critics when you lump together male supporters as 'rabid white knights'. Like I said. Ignorant people hold true to their convictions, regardless when logic is right in front of them.
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