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teamrandom21 — All Because Of A Ship
#archiesonic #nicole #rant #rantart #sally #sonic #sonicthehedgehog #ventart #sallyxnicole #archiesoniconline
Published: 2018-01-04 02:03:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 4497; Favourites: 40; Downloads: 0
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This is going to be my final sonic rant for a while, and I know I've touched on this a bit, but I wanted to get the full story behind this out there. A while back (before the new year), I had got into a bit of a heated debate with Chibi Jen (Jennifer Hernadez) over how Ken did the rotor is gay thing vs. the sally thing, and next thing I know, I get called out by 2 people (I have no idea who they are), but they get all mad at me because I didn't like Sally x Nicole, and were implying I was anti-LGBT.Look guys, the reason why I hate Sally X Nicole isn't because I hate gays, it's because it doesn't make sense. Chibi jen said that Ken was making Rotor gay just to be diverse or whatever, yet this is pretty much what Ian is doing. Sally and Nicole shouldn't be cannon, I'm sorry but it shouldn't. The god damn fandom can barely handle ships, and I don't see how because of a reboot, Sally is now gay or something like that...
and GrandMetroViper I'm sorry I'm dragging you into this, but this is why I point out the whole "Flynn is a fan fiction writer or was" stuff, not as an insult but because it worries me, and this is exactly why. I don't care how ridicules the idea of a blue hedgehog running around destroying robots made by a dude named eggman is, SATAM proved that Sonic can be a serious thing, yet we have Flynn here who's writing is becoming more and more like something out of fan fiction.net.
I'm sorry but I should have a reason to not have faith in this guy, from making excuses to being diverse just for the hell of it...I mean what was wrong with Rotor being gay. We never got his sexuality in SATAM and he could have easily been just not into anyone.
"But random it wasn't up front, it was out of no where with no build up",
Well this ship kind of was...the build up felt forced...and honestly...does it have to be shoved down your throat that 2 characters are gay? See? This is why I left you sonic comic fandom, you've become SJW cry baby snowflakes, and I'm probably gonna wake up to rants and raves saying I'm anti LGBT because I don't ship a cartoon squirrel and a computer lynx...
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Comments: 33
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I agree with you. This ship will never work. Sally is organic while Nicole is an A.I. with a holographic body.
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I'm not against gay people either, heck far from it, but I just will never support an SJW, politically correct and LGBT forced Sonic couple or even Ian Flynn, For me, I grew up with Sonally before the reboot even in SatAM, I loved Sonic and Sally as a couple, the best ship I've seen in the franchise till all the BS went down, The reboot completely ruined everything, The freedom fighters were dumbed down, characters who had potential were left in the dust and now characters changed sexuality and can't even date anymore which irritated me, the reboot to me will never be my canon or even that miserable excuse of a series called IDW sonic which is even worse, both series are just bad fanfictions, Nicole and Sally were not even meant to be! Nicole is a hand-held computer and Sally is an organic princess! it would NEVER work, plus it flat it made ZERO sense as well, including the fact that it was forced, I only see them as best friends to the end like how I only see Amy and Sonic as brother and Sister, I really also dislike the fact that now SJWs and Politics had to get into sonic when all I want is to see action, explosions, romance, lore and humour in the comics! it's its like one YouTuber says " People can't have nice things " for them it's never enough, to anyone who is a Lesbian or a Gay I am NOT against your sexuality at all, I just will not ever Support NicoleXSally ever, I'm sorry but I just wont ( and even one time on discord me and another person were also accused of not liking gay people just because we dont support SallyXNicole ).
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I agree.
But the only thing I don't like about this meme is the picture you chose.
This is just them being friends.
I recommend using fan art or a pro gay flag with the two characters in front or something new.
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Yeah, this is why I don’t like Ian Flynn; he’s pandering to tumblr bullies. :/ Sally x nicole sucks since they could only be written as best friends not lovers.
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Well, what did you expect from a comic writer who started his career making a fancomic based on his own fanfiction?
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Sally and Nicole makes perfect sense.
People don't wanna be with people anymore! They wanna be with their COMPUTERS. People today spend all their time on their computers in modern society!
The manga/anime series Chobits warned us of this! They predicted this! People fallin' in love with the almighty PC!
Nicole provides Sally with all the good stuff - Free porn, trade stocks, music, the news, videos, memes, games, and badly drawn artwork featuring her favorite ships.
But it doesn't really matter now tho because the Archie Comics series is RIPPERONI's and we'll never get to see poor Sal and Nicole ever again.
Nicole was the best tho! Bunnie too.
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"Sally and Nicole makes perfect sense."
"People don't wanna be with people anymore! They wanna be with their COMPUTERS. People today spend all their time on their computers in modern society!"
But if that's the case then you would be promoting a bad message to people.
Last time I checked, staying hooked to your computer and not hooking up with real people is a BAD thing.
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i am sorry, but it sounds like you have stuck 2 different arguments and topics together, the first part is clear with the argument with Sally x Nicole and Rotor x Cobar, and then it somehow goes into a different direction. I respect you don't like Flynn, but this argument here looks like it is not really inconsistent in its meaning or the main meaning is not clear. Like did he even intentionally make Sally x Nicole a pair, or it could be some theory by a fan? Cause even though Flynn ''might'' and i say might support it, does not mean that it is in canon.
As previously in my reply to sync's comment, sometimes it is just clues and people's theories and interpretations.
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He did say he was trying to make it Cannon so
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If Ken was unable to make it un-obscure, i don't see how Ian can do that, just because he says he is going to out it in doesn't mean that it will necessary be in canon, i am sure sega will be the ones who will yes or no it.
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I like Gay Rotor, it got me into the character as a fan, in the first place, and if you look deeply enough into the story where it's revealed, you can see the hints dropped. However, that doesn't mean I'm blind to the BS that surrounded the idea, in the first place, or what Penders was planning on doing with it (from what I remember him telling me, he had left a hint that Eggman knew about it, and had nefarious plans for it that "I wouldn't have liked if I knew"). That said, my feelings on Sally/Nicole is that... it was just stupidly handled, and the way it was handled should nullify its canon, in the first place:
1. Ian revealed it after the comics were canceled, and he wasn't able to formally reveal it, much like what Penders is accused of doing with Gay Rotor.
2. Ian handled Rotor's relationship in "Mobius: X Years Later" HORRIBLY, literally torturing him as a character he personally didn't find appealing and killing his boyfriend off off-panel for no real reason, and then treated Rotor like crap up until the Nanite Suit arc. He claims that he didn't know about the relationship, beforehand, and would've done things different, had he known, but honestly, it was a pretty big deal in the fandom by that time, so how in the hell wouldn't he have known? Hell, from what I remember, when it was revealed by Penders that Rotor was gay, he was still somewhat working on the comics, and at the time, people were convinced he would be hooked up with Tommy Turtle, thanks to their relationship in the comic, at the time of the reveal, so I'm sorry, but I don't buy that Ian "didn't know".
3. When badgered about it, Ian outright said that Rotor's sexuality "didn't matter and was of no consequence", yet he pushed to keep the love triangle between Sonic, Sally, and Monkey Kong going, and - when the reboot happened - fought to keep Antoine and Bunnie as a couple. If THOSE relationships weren't inconsequential to the comics or the characters involved, why would Rotor's be? And, honestly, why would he later try to ship Sally with Nicole, in the reboot, if the only real relationship he was able to have, at that point, was Antoine/Bunnie? Why should we invest ourselves in a gay relationship of his creation, when he so thoroughly destroyed the one that was established by a previous writer?
I get why Gay Rotor was so despised, back in the day, but I think most Sonic fans have cooled down enough to at least be ambivalent to it, now, and honestly, there would've been ways to make that angle work, if done right (just look at my fanfic, Circuits, Crossed, for an example of Rotor/Tommy and Rotor/Cobar done competently; I won't say "right", but competently). But the way that Ian treated it throughout his run just ruins his blatant attempt at copying the controversy with Sally/Nicole. It should not be considered canon at all. Just be glad that Ian admitted in interviews that NONE of the Archie characters that he created are making a comeback in the IDW comics (no word on the original Freedom Fighters or other SatAM characters, but it's not looking good for them), because I don't want to see a third repeat of this BS. I don't care if people decide to make Sally/Nicole a ship in fanon, but how it and previous attempts at a gay relationship in Sonic were treated, it should NOT be counted as Word of God.
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I don't mean to be disrespectful and have no issue at all and have nothing against same sex relationships, but seriously I would not have known that both Rotor and Cobar were in a relationship either (until Ken revealed it) and i don't think it is as obvious as you say:
Like, take Noddy and Big-Ears, there was some people who believed that they were in a relationship, even though the original creator might not have intended.
Also, Dumbledore in the harry Potter series, we all know about his general history and his skill but not much is known about his relationship history.
there might be some obscure clues and probably fans with their theorising on the characters but it could have been interpreted/misinterpreted in different ways (e.g. close brotherly bond etc.)
*In Ken's defence, it's not as though Ken could have make it plainly obvious though, business sometimes often shied away from certain stuff for fear of outrage or boycott from some religious body or ignorance on the business' part (although they wouldn't want to make it too far out there because they want to keep it as an action/adventure series)
The same argument also applies, as for the Nicole/Sally, too
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There were clues put in the comic, and you're right, Ken himself revealed he purposely made it vague to avoid any issue (though there's still some debate on whether it was Archie who forced him to do it, or if Ken consciously did it himself to avoid controversy). Also, this was a good number of years before Kevin Keller hit Archie Comics, so being subtle, whoever was behind the idea, was likely the most sensible move they had with it.
As I said, I understood the implications when I read into the clues, and it made me like the character of Rotor much more, afterward (he's still my favorite character to this day, as a result), but I can definitely understand why people would be against it. Then again, IIRC, Ken revealed the fact while he was still working on the comic, and at the time, people thought he'd pair Rotor up with Tommy Turtle, since they were paired together as master/apprentice during the Brain Trust/ADAM and Nanite story arc, so it's not quite like what Ian did when he announced Sally/Nicole (ie. revealing it long after he had no influence over the comic's canon, anymore).
A more accurate - and egregious - instance of this kind of gaymandering in Archie would be Ken's subsequent announcement - after he left the comic - that the future version of Knuckles' half-brother Knecapeon Mace was gay, when he was shown more or less to be a womanizer in the Mobius: X Years Later series. That draws parallels to how Marvel revealed Iceman to be gay, even though he was quite a womanizer throughout the comic's run, as well. Both instances, there was absolutely no evidence or hints that could be interpreted that way, and as such, the announcement came out of nowhere and felt very out of character and like the comic writers wanted to pander to the LGBT community or the SJWs for sexual equality. As a gay man myself with some appreciation and appeal toward other LGBT relationships, I don't see gay characters as bad, but I know how the presentation and how they're outed can make or break a character, and while I'm not totally on the idea that the latter happened to Rotor, I do think it did with Nicole/Sally and Mace, for that reason.
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Regarding Kneecapeon Mace, yeah that was extremely random and i'm not surprised that he drew parallel to some other comic book continuities, he always seem to do that. (And maybe not just Iceman, Sulu in the reboot Start Trek)
I support equality and I don't see anything wrong with LGTB, I Korra in Legend of Korra is an good example, but it has to be done carefully so it doesn't put that in a bad light,
I am a type of person who more for action and action-drama than too much on romance etc. I'll even pick one up if it is a good story overall
I don't think that ian would also Sally and Nicole relationship, with Sega wanting to clamp down. And there is also the fact that Nicole is essentially a computer too, an object- though has a hologram, and i think sega doesn't want sexual relationships with items (It is an child-friendly action comic after all)
thank you for the friendly and really informative debate and I wish you well.
P.S. I know it is a delicate topic, and i apologise in advance if i said anything offensive.
sorry about the recent edits
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Yeah. Ian could have done this a lot better then he did...and hopefully third time around we won’t get this
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To be fair, when it comes to their work in the comic itself, I'm not taking sides; I consider Penders to be similar to Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas - pretty good at worldbuilding, but not a particularly good writer and obsessed with what their vision for their series is supposed to be (which is why I can understand, and agree with to some point, the hate toward Penders' actions after the lawsuit). Flynn is more like Russell T. Davies - someone who is not very good with their own stories but is good with working with established continuity. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, so we can't automatically hate one or the other for a specific incident in their tenure as writer.
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Why did you drag me here again?......should it even matter unless you were looking for me to argue this which I'm not sure if I want to. I never cared that much about Nicole x Sally because even if they're canon to the comics I don't take shippings that seriously even when it got REALLY fucking stupid back in the day with the Sonic X everyone and all this love triangle thing. The relationship from what I've seen is quite tame and this is coming from someone who literally does not care about shippings at all like fucking none of them. Besides being yet another excuse to bitch about Flynn what even is the point of this besides venting to everyone because this is something that effects the comic so little.
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I wasn’t looking for you to argue, I mind as well drag you here since you comment on most of my rants. And doesn’t effect the comic my ass when Flynn shoves it down people’s throats (his ships)
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It never got it was forced down anyone's throats you need to see it that way because everything Flynn does has to be hated for some reason. It may have been mishandled I'll agree but forced down people's throats I really don't see that.
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I kind of feel it was. Even before the podcast I felt like the two were begin close and friendly, like relationship wise.
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That's how relationships start out.... If I'm to be honest it's the same way every relationship in the comic canon with basic
friendly interaction.
I'm not defending this because I don't care it's just I can't stand getting drug into arguments about the comics because the fans of the two writers and everything don't have anything to say but fling insults at I've another and bash each other. I'm like for fuck sake just leave each other alone.
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Look, I used to be a fan of Ian till his quality went down. Also in my defense it’s always been you and psycho frog who have commented on my rants
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We're usually the ones who come in comment because we don't have bias.........
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I can't speak entirely from him but the way I've seen him talk he doesn't have a complete bias. I seem like I'm pro Ian but I'm not nor am I anti Penders even though he's done some pretty wierd things and has an ego problem. Ian has done things I don't like and so has Penders and to be honest I just read the comics and that's pretty much it. Engaging with some of these comic fans is almost worse than the typical Sonic fan even if they're in the same fandom.
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