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ZeroElements — Not ALL Sociopaths
Published: 2014-10-23 00:35:31 +0000 UTC; Views: 374; Favourites: 8; Downloads: 0
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Not *all* men. Not *all* Aquamen. Not *all* women. Not *all* sociopaths."I don't see the point of stuff like this. It's just divisive and nothing more."
Not *ALL* mathematical equations. Some are multiplication.
This is a retort from a forum where I totally missed the opportunity to post this when talking about sociopaths. I made a case that sociopathic people really are horrible people in any you can think. Some kind of took offense. "NOT ALL SOCIOPATHS" ... murder people, serial kill or what have you. No, they just do horrible things in other ways because they have no empathy and have no remorse. Simple as that. Not even their cousins the narcissists are as bad. Sociopaths suck hard and they're invisible, and you often times don't know what just hit you until it's too late and you're left with the pieces in the aftermath when the dust settles. People often get a gut feeling though that something is not right, but we don't listen to that gut feeling often times, especially if we're so charmed.
How I think it relates to Wikileaks Group
Well, corporations are legal people and are by definition a prototypical psychopath according to Robert D. Hare, leading researcher in the field of psychopathy and written a few books including "Without Conscience" The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us. -> www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUXp_…
Factor 1Factor 2Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal
- Glibness/superficial charm
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Pathological lying
- Cunning/manipulative
Facet 2: Affective
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Emotionally shallow
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Facet 3: Lifestyle
- Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
- Parasitic lifestyle
- Lack of realistic, long-term goals
- Impulsivity
- Irresponsibility
Facet 4: Antisocial
- Poor behavioral controls
- Early behavioral problems
- Juvenile delinquency
- Revocation of conditional release
- Criminal versatility
- Many short-term marital relationships
- Promiscuous sexual behavior
Like so many of us who have good hearts, Dutton would like very much to demonstrate that not every psychopath is utterly heartless. (The first sentence of the book is a startling declaration that his own father was a psychopath.) He summons a conjectural subset, called “functional psychopaths,” who are somewhat warmer. As it happens, there is an existing diagnostic term for the nearly psychopathic—the self-centered, unempathic people who nonetheless, in their own way, can love. The term is narcissism; and, reading with a psychologist’s eye to the distinction, I suspect that a number of the undiagnosed individuals described by Dutton, including perhaps his charismatic father, were narcissists, rather than living beyond the boundary line in the icy wasteland of psychopathy. If Dutton had titled his book “The Wisdom of Narcissists,” he might have made a more credible case: psychologists largely agree that human beings need a certain amount of “normal” narcissism to be healthy. But narcissism varies by degree. The emotional black hole of consciencelessness does not. - Martha Stout www.newrepublic.com/book/revie…
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Comments: 71
Nice question! Borderline is a tough one too to deal with but yeah there's some similarities between the personality disorder range in the cluster B. A sociopath is generally narcissistic and antisocial. A psychopathic woman is generally histrionic and borderline. But most people report similar heartbreaking perceptions of their lives being turned upside down when crossing the path of a psychopathic person. The Cluster B is intimately linked with psychopathy, they all have low empathy for others.
I have a friend since high school who is borderline. He's in and out of jail. His ex who broke up with him recently says she's pretty sure he's borderline, looked it up and studied it. I knew when coming to meet him he was one of these kinds of people because I remember what he was like in high school and it's been years since I've seen him. Anyway, she sent me a video of him hissing in the middle of the night holding a knife over her. She woke up to that. She called the cops. He really fucked up, he gave up the knife and now he's in jail for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon which is a felony. He may have the felony charge dropped, she's not going to press charges because she knows he's not a psychopath or sociopath, and he really tries to search out compassion and the idea of love, although he's rather emotionally shallow and I think he's not really capable of it, which is why he's so obsessed with the words of it more than the personal expression. He's not a psychopath or sociopath but he's definitely farther up on the psychopathic continuum for sure.
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I knew a girl, she was "officially" a borderline personality. Very, very difficult! 
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Makes sense! They all have lower empathy, that's the bottom line issue with them. Similar problems in the mind between both genders are expressed differently through behavior which also makes sense, so that's why there's the 4 personality types. They tend to be histrionic (mostly women) and narcissistic (mostly men) as well so they think there's something "special" about them because they are "different" than other people. The DSM-IV tried to remove "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" but there was a huge disagreement with that in the psych community. I think money tried to do that because people with a lot of money are more narcissistic as studies have concluded. Isn't that great!? Money bags are narcissists. Douchebags... and one wonders why the world is fucked up!?
Borderline is a TOUGH one, all of them are if they are in it deep. Depending on how extreme the behavior is depends on how far deep they are in being a psychopathic personality type. If they are in there pretty deep and exhibit different types, they're definitely a psychopathic personality.
The more you know
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In the end they do only harm themselves. Cause sooner or later, everyone avoided this girl, I talked about. Guess even masochistic personalities would avoid them, cause what is too much, is too much, simply. And that was definitly the last thing, she wanted!
About the rich people, I guess it is easier to believe in that, when you have money, you can "buy" it, simply. Even when you should know that, this friendship/ contact, who tells you, that you're "special", isn't "true"
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Well that's antisocial issues for you. They will alienate themselves, so they figure out their behavior is harmful, although they can't really feel it that way themselves and change their behavior to pass by at longer periods of time. I really think this is the case, they learn to cope basically. It's only until their coping mechanisms are stretched SO THIN that they finally go in and see someone. I was reading on a forum board for histrionics that this one girl basically had no feelings of love, got some gittiness for a biker at 17 but that's about it. She would play the "femme fatale" and blast through other people's marriages, her targets were innocence and other narcissists. She destroyed a marriage and many friendships from what I gathered. She basically "cringes" at what she did. lol I can't imagine cringing. I think I would be more like horrified and shaken to the bone if I woke up with the mind I have now to a past like that, well reverse it as a male.
Oh no it's true, they are narcissists for sure. Recent studies just released within the last couple years confirms it with 1000's of people. There is a real correlation. They are self absorbed, much higher narcissistically and have a sense of entitlement.
you're "special", isn't "true"
That reminds me of the "idealize-devalue-discard" continuum, which explained from Robert D Hare as a natural outcropping of the psychopath's personality that they're not necessarily aware of. Basically in the beginning they shower you with compliments, put you on a pedestal. "You're special" and mirror you as a soul mate, then they get you in their grasp and once you start to really love, the lights turn out.
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And isn't everyone "special" in a way?
I had the theory and still have it, that this borderline people simply were successful in the beginning, but don't see the harm, or don't wanna see it, what they cause on themselves! Not "only" to others. They only see the direct "success" and not what follows after that... or don't bring it in relation to their actions
Also they probably have a lack of discipline, maybe. Don't you think it could be also a reason?
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They only see the direct "success" and not what follows after that
Another problem of these people, they don't see things long term, only the short term benefit. This is another major indicator of a psychopathic personality, so you're onto something.
Lack of discipline is due to their impulsive nature. A psychopathic person is impulsive so appears to lack discipline, but really they are in search for endorphin rushes which is why they put others in danger. The excitement of it produces those endorphins. It's a hell of a ride for an empathic person found in their grips.
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Thank you for explaining...
♥
Another thought I had, is that we nowadays see everything on the point of view of "illness". Isn't that sometimes an 'cheap' excuse for being an a...
You know what I mean? In former times, they didn't had a name for it, so they called them, what they probably really were. Nowadays we have to "understand" everything, cause they're "sick".
Makes it easier for some of them sometimes, in my opinion. Sure there are people, who simply can't act differently, but many can and simply don't, cause they have such an "comfortable" excuse?!?
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Hmm... interesting.
Couple things to note. When it comes to mental disorders, afflictive mental disorders, some compassion must be given. They are ill and suffer internally more than those that are affected by it around them. Say for instance depression. People are callous to it, think these people can just snap out of it, but really that's callous indifference. Those people are suffering in themselves sometimes to the point of suicide. However I take the opposite stance to personality disorders particularly when it comes to psychopathy. No excuse, no empathy because there isn't much there in them. Once someone is in there pretty deep, they're just a shitty human being and there's no getting around that because a personality disorder is inflictive, not afflictive, and what I mean by that is, it damages other people around them more than it appears to affect them.
I don't see the diagnosis as a crutch, I see it as an indictment of a fundamentally defective human lacking a very important evolutionary stage of the brain where morality, empathy and altruism plays a big part. The human species could simply not have lasted as long as it has if we didn't have that. If it were the case that the whole of humanity would be a bunch of psychopaths, the human race would go instinct. I'm pretty confident in that.
For those who want to use it as an excuse, more shit shall be upon them. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Caveat: those that have cluster b disorder issues but not an actual psychopath can change. However it takes massive amounts of introspection (which they lack), psychotherapy and trying to change something every single day for years. You never see them in psych wards, they are often times high functioning and are more promiscuous. That's the sick reality of it.
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Thank you
Have sent this quote to someone else, but I guess it better fits into here
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained."
Mark Twain- Notebook, 1898
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That is awesome. Mark Twain, that guy was a hoot. He also said, "The more I know about people, the better I like my dog."
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Reminds me of this:
"The more I see of men the more I like dogs."
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Also a good and funny one:
"I know the disposition of women: when you will, they won't; when
you won't, they set their hearts upon you of their own inclination."
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Yeah that reminds me of the saying, "Men wait to be chosen." Women are in the drivers seat of procreation but given the nature of this picture knowing these people (sociopathic, cluster b etc...) are more promiscuous really just says natural selection is very blind.
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You think Brad Pitt has/ had to wait for a woman on a 'drivers seat', with or without Angelina? 
~~~ ~~~~~
a famous 'self lie':
________ ___
"All women all like me. But that’s an old story: except of course the abortive ones, the emancipated ones who are simply not up to having children. "
Nietzsche
Yes, this borderline girl, I talked about seemed to be also very promiscous, a constant coming and going... Didn't appeared to me, that she really "choose", she took only what came across her. But maybe I am wrong, didn't made a closer look into her life, didn't wanted to, tbh. Her decision... (and of these men, of course)
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Well it's true actually, but yes definitely both choose, it's true. However if you think about it biologically, women have the extra burden of bearing a child. Studies confirm that as men court they become less picky, when women court they become more picky. Secondly there's a conundrum in the mating game, where the value of a man, when no other variables can be determined, is determined by the mere fact that a man has garnered attraction from the opposite sex. Studies confirm, the hotter the mate, the more perceived value that man has with other women. Women choose, men make themselves available. This is much more true the farther along the attraction scale a woman is. Think about how many guys talk to a woman because of perceived sexual value the woman has, and then think about it vice versa. Guys are pretty simple, nice face and nice body seem to trump a decent personality while it appears women have a much more complicated attraction measure with more variables involved. Women have a more complicated measuring system in their minds when valuing a mate. Social status, monetary means, success qualities, but lets not also forget the kind of communication patterns the man must possess to attract a more sexually desirable woman. I've heard it time and time again, "I don't know what she sees in me, she just chose me." I've heard that from several married men with attractive wives. These guys are not that great looking.
The whole thing to me is also acutely complicated by culture and societal trends as well as cast systems, power and dominance. So the more dominant and resourceful a man is, the more attraction the man has towards the opposite sex. Of course we don't THINK about these things, we primarily ACT on them. There isn't a lot of "forethought" in the initial impulses towards who we deem sexually attractive.
Yep! She was promiscuous eh! She chose, but that doesn't mean she wasn't very discriminate. Depending on her sexual level of attraction depends on her choosiness. For instance I remember watching TV bloopers and one of them had the camera centered on the woman that was dating the quarterback. The TV prompter asked, "How is it the quarterbacks get such beautiful women?" Well, the quarterback is the star of the football game and they make the most money. They are rich millionaires and they are also at the center of America's most beloved sport, (I prefer soccer, fuck football, it's boring as hell). He is highly valuable, rich and famous all in one. This woman's sexual power has weeded out the whole planet earth of men who would be willing to be with her for a quarterback.
To me it comes down to social cast systems, inequality in society, dominance and power. The more power you have the more sexual power you have as a man. The more beautiful you are the more sexual power you have as a woman. Even though that seems kind of fucked up, it's the reality. There's no getting around it. However 99% of the population do not fit into the extremes, most people are somewhere in the middle and most people settle because they don't want to be alone.
Tying it into personality disorders. Here's the kicker. The more dominance, the more power and money a man has, the more narcissistic he is. Let that sink in. Vice versa with a woman, you're looking at histrionic. Something about the cluster B and power and something about the cluster B and sex. Another conundrum, it is often said the psychopathic have greater sexual magnetism.
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Generally you're probably and sadly right. But I had to think about George W. Bush, he had power. Maybe he even was the most powerful man in the world, but attractive??? Really? I don't think so. Also he had money 
I've also have seen too many women, wanting a man, they simply didn't get, like to this borderline girl it happened constantly. And some of these women, had really "agressive" methods to try to "get" their "prince"... So they are in this "drivers seat" but no one wants to be in this car or not the one they had choosen 
What about this???
Sure, I can imagine that rich/ powerful people want to believe, that they're being loved because of their "character", like everyone else wants to believe that. But isn't it the money, power, fame, what is REALLY being loved by the others? If they would lose that money/ power..., they would immediately lose their "loving" people, too. Wulff en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christia… f.e. lost his wife, short after he has lost his job
So it isn't the person, which is being "loved". Not the "quarterback", only the "possibilities" the quarterback opens to their friends and loving environment, right? They try to "use" this quarterback for their interests, right?
"Woman was God's second mistake."
FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, The Antichrist
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Thanks for the interjections. 
However I was reading with borderline that they chase after "love" but once they have it it's like an obnoxious odor to them... they will drop you faster than a box of rocks on your head and you'll be wondering what the hell happened. People who have dealt with those that are borderline also have records of seeing lights or a beam of light coming out of their eyes. *shudders* Creepy. Although it does make for a match maker from hell where the psychopathic personality type and narcissistic can't love, so it's a forever chase. Perfect for each other.
Yeah but people do that anyway. So it isn't the person, which is being "loved". Not the "quarterback", only the "possibilities" the quarterback opens, Exactly, that person is more of a benefit or a resource. I heard one story that a football player was married and they were having a kid and the woman said that she only married him for his genes. Made him feel pretty bad. If you can imagine he re-married. I can't recall which player that was.
Humanity is just a big mistake right now. The Carl Sagans, Dalai Lamas and Mahatma Gandhis of the world are the light sources that make me think we may make it through it as a very cruel and abusive species, at least that's current direction. Going the way of the chimpanzee rather than the Bonobo. Yay.
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People seem to see it somehow, cause others told me that something is "wrong" with her, but nobody said what... I knew it, cause she told me, that she got the diagnosis "borderline", but I didn't wanted to tell it to the others, it wasn't a secret for her, but you know, her thing...
I was pretty naive, thought it couldn't be a huge thing and a friendship is possible, cause she isn't in hospital, so she isn't "dangerous"
Isn't it a compliment, more, that with the genes? I mean, he is his genes, also!?! But he isn't his car, house, money, power, that's not him, that only belongs to him for a while. Wouldn't say, that he should be sad about it...
Your German is so good, so I won't search for the english version for it:
Mark Twain: "Frau: ein Fisch, der den Angler fängt." 
Vermutlich hat Gott die Frau erschaffen, um den Mann kleinzukriegen.
Voltaire
Versuche niemals jemanden so zu machen, wie du selbst bist. Du solltest wissen, daß einer von deiner Sorte genug ist.
Emerson
Ein Farmer erklärte mir: 'Sie können nicht von Pflanzenkost allein leben, denn sie enthält nichts für den Knochenbau', ...; und während er mir vordoziert, geht er hinter seinen Ochsen her, die mit ihren vegetarisch aufgebauten Knochen ihn mitsamt seinem wackeligen Pflug über alle Hindernisse hinwegziehen.
Thoreau
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That's an interesting perspective you've got there from someone who has had some dealings with them.
She said, there is no solution, there is no way to handle with it Yeah psychologists say Borderline is very difficult to deal with, they are some of the most difficult people they contend with, some flip their hands up (as a figure of speech) and go, "Well! Nothing I can do! You're fucked!" Haha. No medication and no "cure". Just tons of introspection, psychotherapy and a willingness to change every single day. All the cluster B's are similar in that regards where there's no medication for them. It's ingrained as an actual psychological personality disorder, deep in their minds, interwoven. You don't find them in psych wards because they don't go in. Usually they go in after their coping mechanisms have been stretched so thin from the bridges they've burned and the lives they've gone through. Often times, they are unaware of the fact they actually have a problem. The cluster B is a black hole, however not all of them are utterly horrible. Some of them try to change, some of them figure out they have a problem and try to do something about it. I give those who are not deeply psychopathic in the cluster B and are aware of the issue the benefit of the doubt. Sociopaths and psychopaths however I do not. Psychopathy is a wasteland, a loss of human life.
After I learned about this from the scientific perspective and researched tirelessly on this subject to get the answers, I realized several people in my past had a cluster B personality issue. One of them was a friend from high school who I told you about. There is another with which I have a very deep suspicion is actually a real psychopathic person, deep in the cluster B between borderline, histrionic and narcissism. That was a very dark time for me. Another was a fellow DJ who spun drum'n'bass back in the days when I was spinning out, I'm pretty sure he's antisocial. The kind of person who could hold whole conversations with himself, highly suspicious character, was obsessive about the cleanliness of his environment, morally low, manipulative, and apparently callous. I heard he was abusive to his girlfriend at the time too. He's definitely up there.
There's another douche who apparently had rich parents, this douche and his brother threw rave parties during the turn of 2000 with a few other production companies at that time. The stories I heard of that guy was pretty goddamned gross. He once clocked this guy in the face with new brass knuckles, just because he wanted to try them out. I met the guy who did that to him, he said he never met the guy before, he just stepped out of the truck and the guy just cold clocked him for no reason. The douche crashed at least one of the cars his parents bought for him... narcissism most definitely. Just another douchebag in the world. I can figure them out pretty quickly now. If they appear emotionally stunted, callous or indifferent, always flying on the edge of their seat for endorphins, the highlight of the party, charismatic and charming, insecurity issues, can't take criticism, needs constant attention, needs to be admired, seeks out ego strokes, higher promiscuity rates, can't keep stable relationships, massive mood swings, idealization (the start of the idealize-devalue-discard method)... the list! They start checkin' off the list, I start to thinking!
Those are some funny quotes! 
And my German sucks! 
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You seem to be a psychologist 
Guess, the only way to handle with this kind of persons is simply to stay away from them.
»Wenn ein verkehrter Mann die rechten Mittel gebraucht, so wirkt das rechte Mittel verkehrt.«
c.g. Jung
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No I'm not a psychologist lol!
Guess, the only way to handle with this kind of persons is simply to stay away from them. - Yep. That's exactly it, that's exactly what psychologists suggest. Once you learn about it, you just distance yourself with no contact. A hunch wasn't good enough for me so I went ahead and figured out the details and it was a huge lesson. I've just basically concluded it's these people who do the majority of the damage in the world. As Martha Stout says, sociopaths are responsible for most of the problems in the world today. Makes sense once you understand the psychology. If you look up corporate psychopathy, it's already been proposed that psychopaths were at the heart of financial melt down. When you look at videos of beheadings in the middle east, it's likely a psychopath is actually doing the beheading. Things like that. It's not hard to see once you understand it.
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Solution, to make the world a little bit better, is taking them away from this positions, right?
Problem also is, who to put into their positions than, instead? Especially, when it is known, that power corrupts. So a quite "normal" guy, in their position, can even become worser, than the original were...
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Well power does corrupt but the axiom or the inference that a normal person can become worse may not necessarily be true. Again, money and power has a direct correlation with narcissism but not necessarily psychopathy. Although the 2 are linked as in all psychopaths are narcissists and not all narcissists are psychopaths. This I can say is true. A used to live in a house which was owned by a man who I've concluded is a "fanatic narcissist". He meets every single bullet point for one to a tee, requires admiration, constant attention almost, has a brittle ego, can't take criticism, went through a self esteem arrest as a child... the whole thing. There are like 2 bullet lists on it where he's not as intense with but for the most part he meets it perfectly. However he's not that bad of a guy actually. He's on the lowest rung of narcissism, holds no sadism, has a lot of fear and paranoia so he's got a bit of the obsessive compulsive thing going on with hoarding, and he talks about the government listening and watching. He's obsessive and controlling and a bit manipulative BUT he tries to help people in his own way, a bit shallow but he does try and he's not evil. So even though narcissism can be very difficult to deal with, he's not an evil person.
I wager similarly with people in position of power and with money who are empathic. They're just more narcissistic, doesn't mean they're psychopathic. The worst are psychopaths by far. Also it does appear because of the manipulative qualities of psychopaths, they can circulate people around them, people are affected by them and their behavior can change. Think of gangs, at the center are psychopaths however lower empathic to empathic people circulate around them.
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Watched yesterday the serie "Luther", think it is from bbc, so probably they don't show it in the states. There is a side figure, a sociopathic or psychopathic girl Alice Morgan, yesterday she wasn't in the serie, didn't appeared, not even once! And somehow it was boring because of that.
In real, I know, you don't wanna have someone like her in your near (you could die simply, because, she is also a murder) and I also understand why Luther rejected her flirtings and tryings to come together with him. But she is the salt and the pepper in this serie. It is really amusing to watch her, while she doing crazy things... Also this Sherlock is quite fascinating, somehow in some way...
whttp/www.deviantart.com/art/S… ;
www.deviantart.com/art/John-Sh…
www.deviantart.com/art/Side-of…
In arts and movies... in real you will find only few 'good' types of them, like this person you talked about, maybe is
What is interesting for me personally. And I think you are a psychologist, or not far from a one...
forgot that totally... You reminded me with that sentence:
"...Again, money and power has a direct correlation with narcissism ..."
Okay. They have money and power and their environment supports them in believing that it is because of their "personality", to get the money or the power or whatever... But how do they understand a "No"!? When you alreday said "No" not only once! When you said that you are not interested...
I don't think it is an American, European issue, cause Americans normally understand a No, like Europeans do. But some Europeans and Americans don't and it seems to me, they are this kind of you talked about. How can you make them respect your decision, that even when they believe so much in their "narcissm", that you really mean No?
And when you don't wanna scream and bite to make that clear
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As far as the 2 links given: "Small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas." It's one thing to gossip about other people based on little information however I think in context to the discussion as we are discussing people, that the greater idea of the aberrant and what the science has to say and how to apply that is not small minded. The second link makes me think this: "I'm a good person until you screw me over." It's more or less saying, "I have self defense mechanisms." Which is perfectly fine, a good thing actually considering the state of the world.
Nope I'm not a psychologist lol. I'm really a computer guy, artist, musical, creative guy that went after the answers. I had to "become" a psychologist as you put it, to figure out the answers. I asked this question to myself: "Why is the world so messed up?" Discovering the cluster B was the last step along a path that spanned several years going all the way back to 2009'ish. The cluster B is the reason and it makes sense. Especially when you take the corporate identity as it is so pervasive to all of western and developed countries, that the corporate entity is a psychopathic entity. It sits right at the heart of the human condition.
They can be amusing from a distance in a theatrical way, but in reality they are far from amusing. Again not ALL of them are terrible, some of them are OK. I think that has to be said, but the deeper they are, the farther up the psychopathic continuum them are, the bigger the douchebag until you have the ultimate douchebag. The worst person on the face of the earth who thinks the highest of himself/herself.
<-- haha hilarious!
As far as not taking "no" for a answer, I found this: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/c…
So I think you're onto something. I like the list of human rights:
You have the right to be treated with respect.
You have the right to express your feelings, opinions and wants.
You have the right to set your own priorities.
You have the right to say “no” without feeling guilty.
You have the right to get what you pay for.
You have the right to have opinions different than others.
You have the right to take care of and protect yourself from being threatened physically, mentally or emotionally.
You have the right to create your own happy and healthy life.
Know your basic human rights!
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Have I sent you eleanors quotes? When not, I have to do it now
"Do what you feel in your 
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."
Eleanor Roosevelt
Thank you for the link and I like this human rights
Here is something "Nietzsche-like":
"There’s very little advice in men’s magazines, because men don’t think there’s a lot they don’t know. Women do. Women want to learn. Men think, “I know what I’m doing, just show me somebody naked.”
Jerry Seinfeld
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